it's the anti-capitalist politics that must be the focus, not the anti-racial politics. and, you hope you get actual egalitarianism in the end, and need to keep fighting for it, if you don't. but, explicitly seeking racial harmony within a capitalist framework - and let's be clear that the capitalist class is the least racist of the classes nowadays - and deciding that's sufficient, or even a worthwhile first step, is just a reformist waste of energy....which is exactly why the capitalist classes, themselves, expend so much energy trying to co-opt leftist movements with identity.
Twenty Faces
of course a privileged white woman thinks that the fight for racial equality is not a worthwhile first step. Well for us non-whites race matters more than class. Racism is of more immediate concern to us. Identity is at the centre of everything, clown
deathtokoalas
see, the way i'm going to react to this is to point out that this person made the stupid assumption that these people always make - they assumed that because i pass as white, i must be privileged. in fact, i'm an indigenous canadian that grew up in a ghetto. and, this is exhibit a of what these people do wrong over and over again.
the bottom line is that the "race is everything" people don't matter because they have no revolutionary potential. at the end of the day, they will merely be swept aside and ignored. as such, they're really not worth wasting your time debating with.
Twenty Faces
ou dont pass as white you are white lol. Go take a dna test. Even if you were indigenous you look white and that will affect how people treat you. The fact you were born in a ghetto is completely irrelevant. white privilege doesnt mean that you live a good life, it simply means that on the basis of your race you are not discriminated.
ethnicity > class. and as a non white working class person the fight against racism is way more important.you can carry on larping as a revolutionary though
deathtokoalas
again - this is exactly why this movement is a dead-end that goes nowhere besides reformism.
i have a few drops of white blood somewhere on my mom's side, but i'm a mix of indigenous, jewish, italian and african. and, these people want to argue they're all about identity? the truth is that they're just a bunch of racists.
Twenty Faces
there is no movement. Marxists dont even get along with each other lol. As i said anyone who thinks fighting against racism is not something we should we do now is no friend of mine. In fact you're an enemy to my own interests.
deathtokoalas
race doesn't exist, it's a social construct invented by capitalism to divide the working class against itself. and, you've walked right into it. but, you're right - we're not on the same side; you're a reformist, and i'm a revolutionary.
as race is a social construct invented by capitalism, the only way to eliminate "racism" is to abolish capitalism, first.
but, let's all stop for a moment and realize that this person is explicitly standing up for capitalism. i mean, that's the point of the distraction - to uphold capitalism.
Twenty Faces
Race does exist, it's both biologically and perceptually obvious. Regardless racism doesnt even require race to be real. The idea that racism was created by capitalists is absurd and so is the claim that getting rid of capitalism will get rid of racism lol. Stop parroting nonsense like a cult member and start using your brain
deathtokoalas
*yawn*. i'm just curious - do you identify as a leftist?
(...)
figures.
race, as a biological concept, has about as much support as creationism, in contemporary science. it's beyond debunked - it's dead and buried. and, all you're doing is demonstrating how obsolete and out of touch with reality you are.
further, the idea that capitalism invented race as divide and conquer is pretty standard leftist history. read zinn.
you don't need to resurrect terms like "scientific socialism" to see that this person's about as divorced from the left as is possible. there's no future, here. no future for you.
Twenty Faces
i never denied that it's a standard leftist claim that capitalism invented race. It's still false. Getting rid of capitalism doesn't get rid of racial hatred or xenophobia. Besides the science is clear, race is biologically real even if mainstream intellectuals want to deny this
deathtokoalas
arguing with crt advocates is about as useful an expenditure of your time as arguing with creationists.
from what i can tell, a lot of them actually are creationists.
it's the new creationism...
Twenty Faces
i'm not a crt advocate. i doubt they'd say that race is biologically real.
deathtokoalas
most of the crt advocates i've argued with are essentially racists in disguise. but, you're just a troll then, i guess.
Twenty Faces
you clearly don't know what racism is.
deathtokoalas
the feeling's mutual, troll.
=====
Brandon B.
"It's not a Left anymore. I just don't know what to call it."
It's a club. Secret handshakes included.
deathtokoalas
they're just garden variety progressives, through and through. and, if you look carefully, the progressive movement was pretty conservative, from the start. the trick is that they've conflated socialism with progressivism, when these ideas were always deeply antagonistic to each other. progressivism in north america (which was something different than in europe) came out of the populist movement, which came out of the last gasps of christian american puritanism. so, these were always these calvinist moralists, to their core. the history between socialism and progressivism, if you care to look into it, is actually fairly vicious, from day one. and, what the left needs to do to rebuild, first and foremost, is reclaim itself from this co-opting influence that's been asserted by progressives, as all progressivism has ever tried to do is distort and dismantle the left.