more screwy right-wing market language from the so-called left.

hiring decisions are not determined by profits. that is reaganomics - thoroughly debunked. rather, they're determined by demand. cutting wages (or increasing them, as you may) can consequently never lead to layoffs, as that does not affect demand. in fact, that would actually decrease profits by making it harder to reach demand; that is, it would send patients elsewhere and reduce total profits in the process. simply put, it would be stupid. almost nobody will do this, and those that do deserve what they get.

reducing doctor's wages will have no effect on anything except reducing doctor's wages, which i think they can handle just fine. and, if they don't want to see a total decrease in pay? i suppose they'll just have to see more patients.

if they cut staff, they'll have to do the same amount of work with less people. there's no logic in this; it's just right-wing scare-mongering.

www.huffingtonpost.ca/nadia-alam/ontario-liberal-healthcare-plan-problems_b_8211512.html

Nadia Alam
Hi Jessica, thank you for reading. I did want to point out a few things:

1. Cutting physician wages does lead to layoffs. Like I said, a physician's office is like a small business. When you cut a physician's wage, they can no longer afford the "extras" of paying for administrative staff, secretaries, nurses, etc. Before a physician closes their office, they will try to make do with less so that they can at least continue to pay for the physical space of the office. And when that doesn't work, they will close the office. Just like some of the family physicians' offices that have closed north of northern Ontario; just like some of the addiction centers that have closed in Toronto; just like some cardiology centers and radiology centers have closed in Southwestern Ontario. This is already happening. Saying that "it isn't so" doesn't change the fact.

2. Physicians cannot work more to earn more. When we see more patients, we bill more, and the government has told us we are not allowed to bill more. The Liberals have put a cap, a limit, on our services, one that we are not allowed to go over. What do you think will happen when we reach this set limit? Physicians will stop seeing patients.

3. There's no logic in doing the same amount of work with less people. You're right. But physicians will try for a little while. The majority of us aren't in this for the money. To be honest, there are other jobs that pay just as well and are much less stressful. However, medicine is a calling for many of us. We love our patients. We love our work. So we will try to make do -- up to a certain point. When we can't bear watching our patients struggle under office inefficiencies resulting from "doing the same amount of work with less people", we will eventually exhaust ourselves and give up.

This happened in the 1990s during the Rae days. It is happening again. Stop trying to deny it.

jessica amber murray
that's not how small businesses work, either. maybe you're bringing up a valid point: maybe doctors ought to take courses in business management, so they don't make these kinds of management errors.

to be blunt, i do not think that you are making an honest argument and don't wish to waste my time on somebody that is being disingenuous. but if i am wrong, and you are serious, i would advise you take some courses in small business management.

i do, however, agree that a cap is a bad idea. i mean, i could see how it might be a good idea if there was concern that doctors were shuffling people in and out, but i'm not aware of that being brought up by anybody and think it's sort of outlandish. i may even argue that it's unconstitutional. if the government is that concerned, it needs to raise revenue and/or cut salaries even further. caps should be a non-starter.

Nadia Alam
We have been tracking how the cuts have affected physicians since they were escalated on October 1. Despite your assertions Ms. Murray that this would never happen, as office revenue (euphemistically called "salary" by the government) drops, physicians are cutting costs to keep their offices open so that they can continue to see patients. When that fails, they cut down on all non-essential staff. When that fails, they close their office. Here is a link to a page that shows which offices have closed in Ontario as of October 10.

https://www.facebook.com/concernedontariodoctors

Please note, this map shows what's happened in less than a month. What do you think will happen if the government continues the cuts to healthcare?

jessica amber murray
they're not cutting health care. they're cutting your salaries. you're cutting health care.

i think we need to take a step back, though. you were arguing that reductions in doctors salaries will lead to cuts in administration jobs. i pointed out that that did not make any sense, because it would not come with a decrease in demand. in response, you've sent me an infographic that suggests that some practices are closing altogether. that's a different argument, and i wouldn't have argued against that as strenuously; i might have suggested that it would be minimal, under the assumption that most doctors are not that greedy. and, i might suggest that you rethink your pr strategy. the idea that what remains a six figure salary is too low to bother practicing reflects very poorly on your profession, especially considering the economic reality right now in this province.

regarding policy, i would suggest that the provincial government work with the federal government to recruit more doctors from outside the country. there's lots of people in the world that would jump at the opportunity to practice medicine in ontario. i'm sorry that what we have to offer is not good enough for you.

Rohan Patel
Do you think you can cut people's salaries and have there be NO effect on healthcare?

jessica amber murray
yes.

they're overpaid.