the judge is right. there should be an offshore facility to expel these mass murderers to. don't let his voice and clean cut appearance fool you; this man is a trained killer that is an existential threat to you and your family and that is beyond any kind of reintegration.
in the short run, a facility like guantanomo would be the proper place to put returning veterans. in the long run, the only solution is to stop creating monsters in the name of national security.
l0l101l0l
"...beyond any kind of reintegration"?
deathtokoalas, you paint with too broad a brush, and the focus of your "existential threat" comment should be aimed toward those up the chain of command all the way to the top, to those whose names we know, to those who wage war for profit.
Angelia Dark
Funny how you can comfortably say that from your computer and not take into account that these people are the ones who do you the biggest favor of all. They are killed and psychologically mutilated so you dont have to be. And it's a voluntary service. 'Mass murderer'? So easy to say, isnt it? You preach that all you like, but in the kill or be killed game, I'd love to see where YOU stand. If you had YOUR way, we'd be fucked over and you and everyone else like you would be standing around in a puddle of your own blood, sweat, and urine crying out for someone to save you. So be goddamned GRATEFUL someone already is.
Justin Merrill
You sound psychotic. Just had to let that out in the open. I admire Chambers for admitting to his demons, its something most people can't say they have done or are able to do. He never said his hands were clean, but we can attribute his dirty hands to a lot of other dirty hands. I think you should readjust your thoughts because you really don't know what the f**k you're talking about.
arizonared2000
What a freaking disgraceful Canadian. Thank goodness Canadians like you are in the minority.
Chalmers Flattery
"A threat to you and your family" ... Funny. That sounds like just the kind of argument that a government official would make when he forces people into war in the first place, you are the worst kind of person, you're a fucking politician.
Spiritu Sancti
you are correct, they should really stop creating killers
Tim Cavill
@deathtokoalas: How bout I call you out on who you really are. You're a Goddamn Progressive with no heart, no soul and no brain. To top it off... you don't believe in God because you think "You're It". I used to think your type was a threat to American society. I now know that you and your ilk are threat to humanity.
Alex Kent
Go to hell or get the flying f*ck out of my country you ignorant, irreverent, progressive skank.
andreadawn1184
I'm not even going to argue with you. You're just an idiot.
Andrew Gasiorowski
"That class of people that must convince employers to hire them"
Thats how you describe yourself in your video below. Welcome to life as a Veteran bro...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOiYUdyw1W0
Monroe D
You are a completely stupid skanky cunt. What a completely idiotic thing to say. Please sterilize yourself.
Zontar18
From one Canadian to another: You, madam, are a waste of space.
Anna C
+Monroe D
I tried to like everyone's response !! What a POS she is !!
Mikaele Baker
+Anna C
She is not a progressive.
Mikaele Baker
+arizonared2000
Again, not a progressive. You've come to believe that anything bad is "progressive" but really she is a totalitarian, believing in imprisoning people without charge.
jojoyojimbi
I'd like to show you something the Marines taught me, first I'll dig a big deep hole, then I'll put you at the bottom of it. Then I'll fill it in, I'm good at digging holes, I was in the Military
pgwarevt
The people who are making comments against this person has never served a day in the military. These people forget that they are able to make these comments due to people fighting for that right. However, once again it is "our" government and maily the VA that allows people to get into these situtations.
Lukey J
+Tim Cavill
Progressivism is the skeptical and pragmatic search for solutions to problems in order for society to "progress" and to better the human condition, through scientific, economic, technological, and sociological means.
You don't like solving problems?
It's very easy nowadays thanks to Google (the internet being one of those "bettering society" technological means I mentioned) something like Progressivism and finding out what the meaning is before making yourself look like a retard.
Ignorance is no longer an excuse people...
Aerik Seven
Drink bleach, you ugly whore.
Lukey J
+Alex Kent
Not a progressive. Well she may be, but she may also be Asthmatic and neither would be the cause of her disgusting ideas... Look up what progressivism actually is.... Fuck, people are stupid...
Lukey J
+Tim Cavill
And by the way, how do you try and mock someone for being an Atheist? You're the one who is too childish to sleep without his blanky of religion.
lcworks
death to koalas, I hipe you slit your wrist and puke
Chet Galland
You were probably against putting Muslim jihadists murdering terrorists into GITMO, and were in favor of giving them a "fair" trial and giving them our taxpayer defense in our own court systems.....yet you would not give a soldier who gives you the right to say those things in our society by his very existence the same weight of help after returning from a warzone facing those murdering jihadists. You are disgusting and you need another prozak or some more weed....wherever you are, stay there! You deserve yourself, you don't deserve our greatest soldiers that give us our freedom. LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE (something else you don't understand).
rick mage
Actually, deathtokoalas is right but not for the reason that she thinks. The judge is also right. We veterans ARE a threat to his socialist, New World Order obsession. We WILL NOT let our government throw away our God given rights which are protected by the U.S. Constitution that we swore an oath to defend until death. We will NOT let our criminal government give our country away to Europe and China. We also will not let our free market turn into a socialist. DEATH FIRST! FYI: We are always bound to our oath. Yes, I will most likely be the first to die or get captured, but there are tens of millions of U.S. veterans who are just like me. If I fall, another one will just take my place. We are combat ready. So, she is right that we are trained killers. Be warned, and tread carefully, guys. It would not be wise to underestimate us. Obama's private army isn't big enough, and you don't have enough screaming liberals who are brave enough for combat. You pussies would rather flee to Canada than to face death head on. ;) Yeah, you are brave enough to destroy businesses and burn cars, when you don't get your way, but when it comes to facing death, most of you liberals would rather flee. So, we would crush you. That is the threat that this judge speaks of. You have been warned.
arizonared2000
+Mikaele Baker
I never said anything about her being a progressive.
usucdik
+rick mage
Come on, dude. Don't be a moron. You're only a threat to the people standing near you, which is most likely friends or family.
You're dumb and the only power you have in the topic is your single vote. And going by votes, you are largely outnumbered. Only absolute retards rage on about the threats of socialism, communism, race-mixing, homosexuality, etc. They are scared and stupid, and have no idea what to do about it.
dilbertgeg
While his comment is intentionally ugly and provocative, the Sgt who wrote "Killology" on scientific techniques and tools he developed for the Army for Vietnam, to condition men to be remorseless and thoughtless in shooting other human beings instantly ---- the instinct towards conscience and humanity was a big challenge for the Army to overcome, except with a small percent of true sociopaths --- the author offered the same warnings about the dangers of returning programmed-to-kill combat vets to civilian life.
After murderous rage is opened up and programmed, it's impossible to just put the genie back in the bottle. The kill training is something a combat vet must manage the rest of their entire lives.
(not to say that every combat vet will have identical experiences and reactions)
Again, by the guy who INVENTED the advanced kill training.
Paul Ostby
What the fuck, so put all veterans in a fucking camp? Who is going to make us go there princess.....What the hell is wrong with you.
deathtokoalas
+l0l101l0l
i'd generally agree that the financial actors responsible for creating war monsters have a price to pay, but that is a completely different concern than dealing with these monstrous automatons they've created; correctly assigning them responsibility doesn't eliminate the reality that returning veterans are a dangerous problem in our communities.
deathtokoalas
+Angelia Dark
if i had my way, we'd be living in a world without national borders that is run by automated computer systems that run on ecologically sustainable energy. war is a product of scarcity.
deathtokoalas
+Gordon Yates
i think you should watch the video again. the brainwashing that these soldiers are put through turns them into robots that are set off by triggers. they can't control themselves. it's not an issue of morality, it's an issue of free will. they need to be deconditioned in outside facilities. and, in a lot of cases, they can't be deconditioned. "talking to a veteran" doesn't get anybody closer to understanding this.
deathtokoalas
+Justin Merrill
again, you're missing the point about soldiers being programmed. i can and will blame him for volunteering in the first place, but that's really not the point. the point is that these people are programmed killing machines that can be set off by just about anything.
deathtokoalas
+arizonared2000
yeah, well, truth != consensus. democracy doesn't change facts.
deathtokoalas
+Chalmers Flattery
my rhetoric was, indeed, designed to trigger. i appreciate the deconstruction. but, i won't apologize for being pragmatic. nor does your response address the point.
deathtokoalas
+Tim Cavill
naw. i'm an anarchist. i don't really get along with liberals. you're right about the atheism, but i hardly claim my own divinity. i just think that naturalistic explanations are more intellectually satisfying. i don't know much about you, but i think i'd probably argue that your way of life is destroying the planet. so, there's probably a level of mutual antagonism there. and i'd honestly like to say that i'm a threat to that way of life, but those idealistic delusions of youth have at this point passed me by; rather, i realize that you're going to blow up the planet, and there's nothing sane people can do about it.
deathtokoalas
+Alex Kent
lol. what makes you think you own this place? i'll tell you what: i'll go back to where i came from (which is here) if you go back to europe. deal?
deathtokoalas
+Andrew Gasiorowski
military personnel are definitely members of the proletariat, but they're also definitely counter-revolutionaries, so fuck 'em.
deathtokoalas
+Monroe D
actually, i did happen to chemically castrate myself recently. you're welcome, i guess? mocking responses to arguments for eugenics aside, this guy is why we have bills of rights, and why we need to keep a very close eye on what our government is doing behind our backs.
deathtokoalas
+Zontar18
is your concept of space descartian or kantian?
deathtokoalas
+Mikaele Baker
hold on here. this guy just publicly admitted to killing people in the name of democracy. in fact, he got paid for it. that's called first degree murder.
deathtokoalas
+jojoyojimbi
hrmmn. and should i show you something i learned studying law? last i checked, that's a death threat. and you wonder why i want you locked up?
deathtokoalas
+Patrick E
i'm a certified mensa idiot, fwiw.
deathtokoalas
+pgwarevt
i hardly think that the united states government guarantees anybody's free speech. i don't have the space here (or the time or interest) for this history lesson. but the first thing that governments in canada and the united states have done when they get into trouble, historically, is go after people that speak their mind.
deathtokoalas
+Chet Galland
my views on this topic are too complex to state here, and it's hard to respond directly to such an inane accusation.
i think you have to understand, to begin with, that a large percentage of the prisoners in guantanomo were rounded up randomly as a part of a political exercise. there's a lot of people there that haven't been charged yet and are innocent of everything except being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
i respect the right to a fair trial. but i also acknowledge the comparison between people being brainwashed in terrorist training camps and people being brainwashed in military camps. that americans have funded, and continue to fund, a lot of this brainwashing activity is secondary. the necessity to deprogram carries a similar weight, and the necessity to STOP is true in both cases. rather than draw a contrast, i'd draw a similarity that would - in simple terms - mean understanding the american military as a terrorist group.
what i'm not in favour of, in either circumstance, is torture and inhumane treatment. deprogramming doesn't need to be cruel. and i'm not interested in being moralizing or zealous about it.
Zontar18
+deathtokoalas
You've responded to each and every one of your detractors. Your ego is staggering. And thoroughly unwarranted.
deathtokoalas
+Zontar18
i skipped a few of the particularly dumb responses.
rick mage
@usucdik..Are you really that stupid? We have over 100 million registered gun owners. Most of which are 2nd Amendment advocates who will also gladly die fighting to protect the U.S. Constitution from scums like you. There are also tens of millions of those registered gun owners who are military veterans.
We are trained to kill. ;) But go ahead and keep smoking that crack of yours. ;) Yeah, you may think that you outnumber us, but if the shit ever hits the fan, I'm willing to bet that most of you cowards will go screaming to Canada. ;) Oh, we'll find you. ;)
And deathtokoalas...You speak of things of which you know nothing about. Have you ever served in the U.S. military? No? I didn't think so. Quit getting your info off of Liberal CNN. Those idiots lie just like the idiots off of Fox News. There is no "brainwashing" that goes on in the military, and there is no military conspiracy to round up "innocent" terrorists so that we can go torture them at Guantanamo. :p Do you know how silly you sound when you say this?
Anyway, I have a question for you. If a preacher is preaching to his choir, is he brain washing them, or is he already teaching things that they already strongly believe in? Well, the same can be applied for those in the military.
Most people who join the U.S. military are those who already have a strong faith in God and our U.S. Constitution. We would already gladly die to protect it. This may sound crazy to you. Well, what's crazy? Were our founding fathers crazy for taking on the country with the biggest and best military on the planet?
So, the instructors/military commanders are only preaching to the choir. ;) The only brain washing that might go on in the military are for those who are liberal but are also weak in preserving their beliefs. They are not getting brainwashed by their instructors or commanders but by their comrades in arms, instead. Hey, don't blame the military for that. Blame your weak liberal comrades.
You see, what you fail to understand is this. Most of us get our strong beliefs from our family, not when we join the military. Think about it. When you go to an abortion rights rally, are you getting brainwashed, then? Or, do you already have a strong belief that it is okay for mothers to murder their own babies? Wait...Who are you calling crazy??
Cause, sane people usually don't think it's okay to murder babies...Yeah, I know that you think you can say the same thing and say that we are murdering the "poor" terrorists/Islamic militants" who are trying to kill us....It's not the same thing. No, it really isn't. It is not murder when one has to kill to protect oneself or his brothers in arms.
Sane people don't also curse the military, who help protect our nation, but also scream for strict gun control. Do you realize how retarded that sounds? It sounds like if you had your way, all military veterans would be thrown out of the United States and the private gun ownership would be reduced down to under one hundred thousand.
Really? Who would want to join the U.S. military, if you had you way? How would our nation be protected if even the citizens weren't even allowed to protect themselves by owning guns? What you wish for lacks common sense. It quite sad who you seem to have more support for drug dealers, gangs, and cartel punks than you do for the people who want to protect this beloved country from those who want to destroy it completely.
Anyway, good luck trying to throw us offshore. ;) You don't have a big enough army, you really don't. However, I'm hoping that you are your libtards can convince our government to try. :) The day that our government tries that, you, your libtard friends, and your world will come crumbling apart, that's a promise. Wait, are you even a citizen of the United States? If not, worry about your own damn country.
deathtokoalas
+rick mage
your argumentative techniques are not something i really want to engage with. i have about as much interest in joining the us army as i do in joining the mob.
just to answer a few of your questions.
yes, i would consider religion to be a type of brainwashing, and one of the most powerful evils that exists in the world today. without religion, the kinds of wars that are being fought today in the middle east couldn't happen. it's not a sufficient condition, but it's a necessary one. religion takes peoples brains and turns them into mush.
the american revolutionary war was a struggle between landholding classes in the united states and in england. those landholders (your "founding fathers") repeatedly slaughtered american citizens for daring to revolt against the military dictatorship they were trying to accomplish. half the population fled this tyranny, which was as bad as anything that happened under napoleon. the entire legal structure of the country is designed to prevent change, rather than accommodate it. i don't see any value in conversing further with people that do not understand the history of their own country. i will point out, though, that you seem rather......brainwashed.
i'd suggest reading zinn's people's history to get a better understanding of things. i don't think anybody actually reads manufacturing consent, but you could poke around a little online. this will help you understand the means by which you are brainwashed by the media, your family and your church.
of course, this is not the same thing as having your empathy deprogrammed and autonomous responses inserted into your brain functioning.
also, i don't watch cnn. i don't even own a television set. the websites i get the news from are quite a bit further to the left than cnn, which i'd consider to actually be very pro-establishment and measurably to the right of centre.
Mikaele Baker
Your analysis of early American history is radically skewed. Yes I acknowledge that the founders were sometimes hypocritical, but the Confederation Gov't was by no means a military dictatorship, suffering for having a national government that was way too weak. The Constitutional Gov't (the one that survives to this day) was radically skewed toward rich white men (though this mostly changes).
Neither side ever slaughtered large numbers of civilians (unless you count the frontier). I take it you're referring to Shay's Uprising and the Whisky Rebellion, the second of which was put down by a militia force led by Washington (the only president to lead troops in battle) with very little actual bloodshed. And no not all founders agreed with this, Jefferson for example almost supported the rebellion.
See, I identify as a leftist also (I am a democratic-socialist), but unlike you I understand what it means to be Liberal. Liberalism is the ideology of freedom and equality, of the many over the few, and of unity. While I do not believe that all ideas should be respected, the people who hold such ideas should be, because all human beings deserve respect.
You show hostility, your ideas are oppressive. You should know that defense is necessary to the common good, and you should have a personal respect for soldiers. You do not have to agree with the wars they fight, or how they are fought, but soldiers have ensured your right to hold an opinion contrary to the majority. I frequently advocate Marxist ideals, but I have not been arrested because while our country is not without oppression (mostly in economic terms) it is still fundamentally free. I can sit for hours and criticize my country, but that does not mean I am unpatriotic.
You have passed judgement on all veterans, you have dealt in absolutes by saying they are beyond rehabilitation. That is not leftism, that is not progressivism, nor is it liberalism. That's hardcore conservatism.
deathtokoalas
i've repeatedly rejected the assertion that i'm a liberal. i identify as an anarchist. i'm very critical of liberalism. so, when you point out that i'm not speaking from a liberal perspective, you're absolutely correct. yet, if you identify as a liberal, i would reject that you belong to the left. and, certainly, your ideological attitude is not empirical, and consequently not leftist.
see, you're making the mistake of confusing ideology with science. whether veterans can be rehabilitated or not is not an ideological question, it is a scientific one. and it is one with an answer that people don't want to come to terms with. unfortunately, science often rejects the axioms of liberalism. that's something that leftists understand.
the united states is designed as a military dictatorship. the president is, constitutionally, precisely this. and, as a canadian, my own history remembers millions (ok, thousands) of people fleeing certain death at the hands of revolutionaries looking to water the tree of liberty. the slaughter i'm referring to is the revolutionary war itself.
to be clear.
modern conservative perspective: not government's role, let market figure it out. derp derp derp.
modern liberal perspective: through hard work and perseverance, the individual may overcome any and all difficulties. they deserve the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to try and work through their problems.
modern socialist perspective: empirical studies on returning veterans indicate that they are not likely to integrate properly and are likely to pose a continued threat to society unless they are isolated from it in a lengthy deprogramming process. eliminating the threat that veterans pose to society means getting to the problem at it's root cause.
got it?
Mikaele Baker
Proper empirical studies cannot be done in the field of psychology, at least not reliably. Not feasible for basing policy off of.
I got onto a bit of a high horse about liberalism, but the fact of the matter is dehumanization is not a liberal ideal. And that is what you are proposing.
I would disagree with your modern liberal perspective summary, not in that it's untrue but that it emphasizes different things than a proper definition of modern liberalism would. But following that, I would say that assuming that all veterans are unstable and unable to be reintegrated into society is not giving them the " benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to try and work through their problems".
Veterans should of course have medical benefits covering psychology. In fact I would venture to say that for a year or two after being sent home veterans should be required to undergo regular psychological evaluation. But sticking them in what amounts to an offshore Concentration Camp like 1930s German asylum patients is not the answer. I know, I hate to invoke Godwin's law, and I apologize, but you brought that upon yourself.
My goodness, have you ever met an Iraq War veteran? Or any war veteran? Kerry was in the Vietnam War. I would be hard-pressed to find evidence that he has not reintegrated properly. I've met war veterans who have had trouble returning to civilian life, ubt I've met far more who haven't. And everything in between. These are human beings you're dealing with, not faulty computer programs or damaged machines. Every single one will be different.
deathtokoalas
again, i need to reject the idea that pursuing the axioms of liberalism is going to accomplish anything positive. that leads to libertarianism. rather, we need to be actively counter-acting liberal assumptions with hard evidence if we want to be "progressive". the experiment in liberalism over the last several centuries has been an abject failure! it's created a highly class stratified society defined by absurd amounts of oppression. all of it is due to the elevation of self-interest from a sin into a virtue. liberalism is the cause, not the solution. while i suppose that you have every right to be a bleeding heart liberal if you decide to be, i am not on your side of the debate and need you to immediately acknowledge this reality if you'd like me to continue this conversation with you.
as i often say: fucking liberals.
i'm not even sure what you mean by 'dehumanization'. i don't consider humans to be particularly special creatures, or believe that we have some kind of unique status amongst other biological entities. what does 'decatification' mean? 'desharkification'?
regardless, if i get your drift, you're constructing a strawman. all i'm arguing for is a temporary facility for veterans to be placed in and monitored before they are able to reintegrate back into society. it's a holding facility, not a concentration camp. for some, that may be a lengthy process. for others, it may be a futile one. however, if i wasn't clear (i think i was, but i don't want to re-read my posts), i'm not arguing for those facilities to be inhumane.
another thing you need to keep in mind is that volunteering for service and killing people for money is, by definition, criminal behaviour. these people are war criminals. if you want to pull the hitler analogy in, you're more or less arguing that the 'dehumanizing' nuremberg trials should have been less severe because the nazi collaborators were 'just following orders'. but, again, i'm not proposing anything on that level.
basic statistics on the level of unprovoked violence amongst military veterans are enough to conclude a correlative effect and justify a containment strategy. we don't need to get into the psychology, we can merely observe the effects of brainwashing: flashbacks, fantasies, automatic behaviour, ptsd, etc
actually, i'm curious, super-duper bleeding-heart liberal: should they have executed goering? or would that be in opposition to your value system of universal morals? would it be too 'dehumanizing'? does your deity even dictate the point?
i bet you think they should have served him a nice breakfast in bed every day. after all, war criminals are people too.