"but you can't say that homosexuality is a choice, because then religious fascists will be justified in arguing that it's ok to forcibly convert them."

what?

it's one of those weird "progressive" positions that only makes sense if you're a conservative pretending to be a "left-wing christian", as though such a thing is even possible.

i actually want to forget about the obvious logical problems with this, as though forced conversion ("gay therapy") is ever somehow justified. i mean, i'll be clear: "gay therapy" is never justified. it doesn't matter if it's a choice, it's still an egregious rights infringement, and your religion can go fuck itself up the ass. yeah, how about that, huh? it's especially egregious when applied towards children; it's child abuse. if you're out there walking around thinking that "gay therapy" would be perfectly ok if homosexuality were only a choice, but, alas, it isn't, so we should resist it because it won't work anyways then...!?!?...

...i don't know what side you think you're on....?

but, that's not even what i want to say. you've got the logic fucked, anyways.

let's say we get this gay guy tied down and try and brainwash him, clockwork orange style, into being straight. we already know this doesn't work. yet, you want to argue that it doesn't work because he doesn't have a choice?

no. ...

if he really didn't have a choice, that is if it was really hardwired somewhere into his brain, you should be able to "flip the switch". otherwise, being gay would be pretty much singularly unique, wouldn't it? i mean, you can flip just about any switch you can imagine. with the right images, you can get an army sergeant in a ballerina dress, singing rocket man. rocket mensch, probably.

is it just a wild coincidence that homosexuality is pretty much the only thing we've ever found that you can't flip? really?

i might suggest that the reason the brainwashing is so ineffective in most gay people is that they're able to reject it for the precise reason that it is a conscious choice and, further, that if it weren't a conscious choice then the brainwashing would largely work.