so, i was talking about flavonoids and wanted to post a summary. i still have some reading to do, but...

i can't find any actual science telling me what they're supposed to do; we can barely absorb them, we don't seem to need them for anything, and while eating berries seems to be correlated with healthiness, it's not clear if the flavonoids have anything to do with it. there's lots of other reasons why strawberries are good for you.

so, while these chemicals are antioxidants, your body doesn't seem to use them that way and claims that blueberries or red wine or chocolate help you fight off cancer or prevent dementia would consequently appear to be largely pseudo-science, at this point. that doesn't mean they're not good for you, though; and, it doesn't even mean that the science underlying the premise that the flavonoids is unsound. what it means is that you're not getting substantive levels of these chemicals from any of these foods in a way that you can actually absorb and use. the only ambiguity is that it's not totally clear if the glycoside metabolites may have some fleeting benefit that we don't currently understand, before we piss them out (despite it appearing to be unlikely). but, your body doesn't accept the flavonoids the way it accepts the carotenoids, either, so there's less of a reason to think there's an evolutionary process at work. one thing i'll want to see is what foods have a higher aglycone:glycoside ratio, and if i find something i may want to try it, but it's not clear to me how widely studied this is, and it seems like the assumption is that you get the two of them together in some unclear mix, where the glycoside almost always dominates (due to the poor stability of the aglycones).

that said,

1) i currently eat a daily amount of blueberries, raspberries and strawberries that, together, seems to be maximizing anthocyanidin intake. elderberries have more, but they're poisonous (they appear to be metabolized by your body as cyanide. see the connection?). there's not any good reason for me to cut any of that out of my fruit bowl, right now. there are no dietary requirements, but i couldn't imagine getting more than i already do. they don't seem to be harmful...
2) the only significant sources of flavon-3-ol seems to be chocolate, which i get in my coffee, and apples, which i drink in the form of juice. i'm otherwise not likely to consume any of these things. and, again - strawberries, blueberries, raspberries & cherries (all in my diet) are a minimal source. but, these chemicals are also said to build muscle, and i may even want to avoid them. thankfully, we apparently basically can't absorb them at all.
3) the highest source of flavonols appears to be kale, which i'm probably going to be integrating, anyways. blueberries & broccoli round it out. again - these are poorly absorbed antioxidants.
4) usable flavones only appear to be available in spices. salad, maybe.
5) flavanones only appear to be available in citrus fruits. should i get some lemon in my salad? sounds yummy.
6) about the only way to get isoflavones is via soy, which is a key part of my diet. i could maybe put some bacon bits in the salad. they're cheap, but the omega-6 is a little daunting. we'll see how i feel about that, and how it adds up. isoflavones are, of course, also estrogenic.

so, if i did nothing, i'd be getting tons of flavonoids, as it is.

and, i think berries are still a good gamble in trying to get your cancer risk down.

what i'm going to do is to go ahead and list them (except the flavon-3-ols, which it would appear i don't want much of, anyway) and try to figure out how much i'm getting, without really thinking about it too much further.

but, i am going to read through this pile of articles i've got in my tabs, too, and i'll let you know if anything interesting comes up.

so, here's the list - and we'll see how much of each one i'm getting, whether it really matters, or not:

anthocyanidins:
1) pelargonidin
2) delphinidin
3) cyanidin
4) malvinidin
5) peonidin
6) petunidin
7) rosinidin

flavonols:
1) isorhamnetin
2) kaempferol
3) myricetin
4) quercetin
5) fisetin
6) kaempferide

flavones:
1) luteolin
2) apigenin
3) techtochrysin
4) baicalein (to avoid!)
5) norwogonin
6) wogonin
7) nobiletin

flavanones:
1) eriodictyol
2) hesperetin
3) naringenin
4) hesperidin
5) isosakuranetin
6) pinocembrin
7) sterubin

isoflavones:
1) daidzein
2) genistein
3) glycitein
4) biochanin A
5) formononetin