it's hard to have a really informed position on a trade deal that is being conducted in secret.

but, for what reason do we want to send milk around the pacific rim? there's no comparative or absolute advantage in one region producing more milk. it's not climate or even labour-related. it's a perishable item. there's a large carbon cost involved, which is no doubt being entirely ignored. and, the rumour floating around is that the primary issue is not related to allowing countries to export surpluses into countries with deficits [if such a thing is even demonstrable], but dealing with countries with surpluses flooding other markets with surpluses. maybe a little supply-management might be a better idea, so that resources can be better focused on demand? in helping farmers produce things that aren't milk, if they're overproducing it for domestic consumption and there is no real export market, because almost everybody is self-sufficient in milk?

if there's any kind of advantage, it's to do with things like currency manipulation. do i care? no. do i care about offsetting chinese influence in malaysia? no. but, do i care about knowing that the milk i buy in a store is made not just in canada but in ontario, for health and environmental reasons? absolutely: yes

it's just a ridiculous, absurd regime.

canada can make lots of wheat; malaysia would need to import it, although they'd no doubt prefer rice, but you get the point. malaysia can makes lots of rubber; canada would need to import it. let's trade. great. but there's no coherent reason at all why we should want an open market in perishable items that can be produced sufficiently at home - and are better produced at home for a variety of reasons.

another example...

i live in windsor. it's one of the biggest tomato-producing regions in the world. there should be massive surpluses of tomatoes right now, because they closed the heinz factory. but, the market is being flooded with beat to shit, mouldy, bruised tomatoes from mexico that have sat on a truck for a week before they get here. and, i'm not saving money by being stuck with this inferior product, either - the local tomatoes [when you can find them] are actually cheaper, in addition to not being mouldy, bruised and beaten to shit from sitting in a truck for a week.

this is not rational, ricardan equivalence type free trade. it's dictated by the difference in value between the mexican and canadian currencies.

it's not absurd to expect to be able to walk to the store and buy nice, fresh tomatoes that are grown down the road, instead of mouldy, bruised beat to shit ones from thousands of km away. nor is it unreasonable to expect policy that doesn't make that so difficult.

www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trans-pacific-partnership-talks-key-issues-preventing-a-deal-1.3176649

RustBeltON
Yes, Canada has been doing just fine in the past, for example, when under the late great Trudeau (Senior), "nobody" in the our western would would trade with Cuba.  But Trideau did successfully, Canadian Wheat, for Cuban raw Sugar. AND, sugar was very cheap back then.  It's was a win-win for us both.

Yep, Southern Ontario, (Leamington, Essex, Niagara,...) is the Fruit and Vegetable Capital of Canada, and yet many (S. Ontarian) Canadians are forced(albeit economically and Corporatively), to eat the crap from Mexico, ..., meanwhile Corps like Loblaws,..., who by it for only pennies on the pound, then CHARGE/gouge Canadian Consumers slightly less than Leamington prices. AND, Loblaws,..., doesn't really give consumers much of a choice 'cause they stick it right in our face on all the produce shelves.

It's disgusting.

...and. more importantly, back then we sure as heck didn't need no ($120 Million-per-year LOSS called)-NAFTA for all of our International trading.

Jessica Murray
my experience has been that the produce from mexico is generally considerably more expensive than the produce from leamington, but it's a variable thing, partly offset by where you can buy it. if you want local produce here, you have to find a farmer's market type store, and they're generally a little less across the board. but, local tomatoes at the local market are *consistently* about 30% less than imported tomatoes at the grocery store.

as mentioned - the local tomatoes are fresh, clean and grown with standards that we can see from experience are not followed in mexico. there was recently a case of mexican cilantro being swamped with fecal matter, and when they inspected the manufacturing sites they found there was no washroom - and there was actually used toilet paper on the ground of the production facility. you couldn't make that up. it defies fiction. but, it was true.

the mexican tomatoes are bruised, growing strange things on them and grown under who knows what kind of conditions.

consumers should pick the local product, in theory - it's better and cheaper. but we're not really given a chance because the stores won't carry them. you have to go out of your way to find the stuff, and most people just won't do it. then, we call this reality "free trade".

it's a farce.