Tuesday, September 3, 2013
a sample of how everybody had such a hard time getting their heads around an extrapolation of malatesta’s critique of the (lack of) revolutionary potential within organized labour
ESA
Lol about ramshackles
Jessica Amber Murray
*shrug*. what i was writing was going to end up elsewhere, anyways, and i'm really no longer remotely interested in the kind of class struggle politics that they're pushing, with little if any kind of consequence. history doesn't seem to have anything to teach them; they seem to be content repeating the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. i just wanted to lay it out before i left. i wasn't expecting much, but there was that bit of hope that it might get through to them. as it is, i'll send them the link to the blog post instead... i guess they'll probably be happier when left to their cognitive dissonance in peace. i think most of them know that their circle jerk is really just a drinking game. i don't want to focus on five generations from now, i don't really care about five generations from now, i want to live my own life in the closest approximation to freedom that i can conjure together. i want what i want, and i want it now. the slowpoke, systemic marxist viewpoints and approaches they take (not all of them, and not all of the time, but in general) are just not aligned with what i want to work towards. well, that, and a handful of the people in that group (and aligned with the movement in ottawa) are seriously dangerous, authoritarian idiots that should not be organized with - i'm thinking nehru, (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, polly and lavey specifically. reality is that they're just the wave of authoritarian idiots i came into contact with. there was a wave before them, and there'll be a wave after them. it's the marxist system of organizing that keeps providing soapboxes and hierarchies for them to take advantage of. i can't treat them as temporary allies anymore, they just scare me too much...
it doesn't really matter. i don't want to launch an attack against that group or single anybody out. i'm not going to single anybody out or reference anybody by name or anything. it's not about my ego, and i don't want to make it about anybody else's ego. i'll maintain everybody's anonymity. see, the crux of what i'm saying is that it's the system of organizing that is counter-productive and isn't going to lead to anything except new systems of oppression (in reality, these groups are not going anywhere at all, but if they did...). it's the system i want to focus on, and new approaches i want to suggest.
ESA
I agree with this in some ways, but I think that you're forgetting that you're attacking a VERY unfocused group of so-called activists. Not to say that people like (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, lavey and whoever else don't organize, but none of them organize together. And besides those two and a few others, I don't think anybody has organized anything ever. I mean, come on, REALLY? Polly? Seriously? Nehru? From what I've heard of Nehru is that he's just a racist bigot who would rather accuse people of having white privilege (when they're not white and definitely arab), or just legit hating on white people for the colour of their skin. No fucking analysis ever. I think you know that though. And people don't like people called on their lack of analysis. If Nehru is anything like slimer, he's a waste of fucking space. Most people don't understand that it is a class struggle, or at least a STRUGGLE, and are content in the activist circle jerk. Because they're too comfortable in their bourgie fucking homes where they don't have to worry about any real bullshit. They just see themselves as heroes out to save humanity. No solidarity. And this is Ottawa. I disagree about (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis and lavey though.
I think your comments should be more directly targeted.
It does come off as a bunch of bullshit generalizations
and then people are just insulted because the arguement therefore sucks
and also you're insulting them.
So I would just insult people and make your arguements very clear. Not that people give a shit or want that, but I think it would be better than the alternative.
The alternative being that you don't really call any one group out directly. the IWW, sure. but besides that not so much.
Jessica Amber Murray
but, that's missing the point of the critique, which is basically a standard anarchist criticism of marxism: when you set up groups with leaders, you end up with hierarchies that end up oppressing people. it's not really the people, it's the means of organizing. you throw those specific people out and continue organizing in hierarchies and you're going to get the same problems. i'm getting into the same problem i had with (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, which is that i haven't actually written the critique. i actually have this problem with TAs a lot and a drives me fucking crazy because i shouldn't be sitting around calling TAs illiterate idiots. an introductory, thesis-like statement is meant to summarize what follows. it's not a "generalization", it's a summary of the more in depth analysis that will follow. i explained that to (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis repeatedly, but he doesn't listen when people speak.
writing off the introduction of an essay as a generalization is the kind of thing that drives me bonkers.
ESA
Lol. Ok well i disagree with you
I think people wrongfully see themselves as leaders
And they think they are more worthy and more right than others
Its because of this that they think that other people are less worthy of being as involved or as influential in organizing.
And thinking people are less worthy is fjcked up and non anarchist at all
Like polly is a marxist. I wwould say a lot of people are.
But not (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis. I think (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis is just louder than other people.
You just are NOT clear about which group you are analyzing.
I dont get the impression that in Line9 organizing its structured that way.
In decli.e 9
Jessica Amber Murray
i think, with (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, if you were to ask him to fill out a multiple choice exam where he had to pick which statements came from bakunin and which statements came from marx the only ones he'd get right would be guesses, and he'd probably get most of it wrong. meaning, i don't think he really knows what the difference is. polly, i think does. on the one hand, that's not awful. i don't think he see himself as an intellectual. he's more interested in doing than thinking. i'm the opposite; i'm useless at anything besides analysis. he's not wrong to point that out, but he's a fool for not realizing the need for thinkers in society. that's what has begun to scare me about him, his anti-intellectualism. i've been vocal about the need for both types of people in a movement and that they need to play off on each other's strengths. i can't organize like (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis. he doesn't know as much as i do. these two types should work together; he's not at all interested, he just reacts with his ego. now, i'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but i think that the organizing ideals and structures that exist are at the root cause of things. we live in a system that produces hierarchy, so self-appointed leaders are going to arise. organizing structures need to work in ways that neutralize that leadership, not merely provide vessels for authoritarians to take control.
ESA
polly does know the difference but is a.marxist in how youre describing
In the same way that hes a sexist as fuck in his life but philosophically hes a feminist and knows evverything about feminism
I agree with the second paragraph, but it seems like youre more interested in criticizng people, rather than giving input.
Obviously you know a lot and have good insight. But people like khrtis dont give a fuck if youre calling him a marxist or not
I think if you had related it specifically to what he change in his tactics and how he could change it, that might have been more well received.
Another thing, (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis wasnt really upset. More like "who the fuck doees jess think she is!?" Which is the same reaction i have to you 90 percent of the time. But i kind of appreciate your arrrogance.
I really give zero fucks about what somebody thinks unless they have practical experience. I am also a pragmatist. But if someone wants to be like "i would suggest you do this otherwise" i will take that into considration.
Also most of these socalled anarchists dont give a fuck about the lumpen proletariat which is what youve basically said a bajillion times. And fuck yeah i agree. People are classist as fuck and dont understand how important it is to organize these people before theyre organized against us.
Which is why polly is a marxist. He disregards people based on their lack of forrmal education and what theyre wearing and what they look like. He is only one of many people tho
Jessica Amber Murray
argh. i was getting to a more specific analysis. i keep saying that. this is literally judging a book by it's introduction. i dunno, maybe it's my fault, maybe i should have written the entire 40 pages out and sent it all at the same time. but nobody would have read it.
in the end, my arguments (which are not really *my* arguments) in favour of working with the section of the proletariat that is not able to find employment are based upon the now ancient observation - which has largely turned out to be true - that employed workers may be in a struggle with their bosses but that actually revolutionary goals are not within their interests, and so revolution can never happen by organizing employed workers. it just turns into a fight over benefits that ultimately strengthens the system. you know who understood that best? fucking liberals. that doesn't apply to (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, though. (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis is within that class, and i haven't interpreted him as being particularly interested in labour politics. i wasn't really initially aiming any of what i said at (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis. his response really scared me, though. i think it brought out a side of his nature i was previously unaware of and i'm now very cautious of.
again, it doesn't really matter. i'm way out in windsor now, and i'm not coming back. i can use my experience as a case study in moving forwards. but, there's not any value in working through the specific any further.
i currently have him blocked. i was expecting that he was just going to keep going and going, and as i pointed out i don't really think the reaction was about me. i think it's a complex thing that has to do with me maybe triggering him a little. (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis reminds me a lot of a friend i had in high school that had some learning disabilities and developed a really strong negative reaction to anybody that may be interpreted as a 'teacher'. teachers made him feel inferior for ten years of his life. so, while i reject that i talk down to him, i'll acknowledge that i may be triggering something in him as far as that is concerned - largely by comparison with that friend. ultimately, though, i don't think that's what set off the nature of the response. i think what set off the nature of the response is that he's upset about the things that have been happening around him. i'm generally empathetic to that kind of thing, i can take a lot of shit, but i was trying to get a point across and he was just going to continue being disruptive. i'll unblock him in a few days and see where things go from there. but i'm not really particularly invested or interested. i don't like conflict, though, and it would be nice to at least get back on cordial terms.
ESA
you said some really ridiculous shit though. Man, if i were on that group i would have trolled the fuck outta you. Abot how you know more than people, and how you are altruistic and how people should be grateful to you for your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share.
I think that its not even mostly about the arguments you had that pissed off (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, but how ridiculously and strangely arrogant you were. Your argument really lacked tact in that way.
Im not really arguing with the content of what you said.
I agree with you, though i think you haave some falsse interpretations on the iww, though i dont want to get into that because i typing only on my phone.
Jessica Amber Murray
i don't think what i said was ridiculous. i think it was brutally honest, and entirely accurate. sometimes honesty is fucking awful, but i don't pretend i'm tactful. i'll acknowledge that i don't often understand that other people react badly to honesty, but i'm not blaming myself for that.
what i need to do is invent a chip that turns everybody into robots like me, then mass implant it in everyone. then i'd never get into conflicts with people!
ESA
Because IWW was founded on the basis that workers (both employed and unemployed) are the laboring class, and does not create a distinction there at all. So when you talk about organizkng the unemployed, thats awesome, but isnt against the IWW mandate as a whole.
Jessica Amber Murray
no, i think there IS a distinction!!
ESA
No what you said wasnt ridiculous.
Lumpen proletariat and proletriaat.
But that still isnt in conflict with what you were sayinv. Whatever
Bitches be down with organizing folks who are unemployed and dejected
Jessica Amber Murray
i think the unemployed need to organize in ways that are directly harmful to the employed. that's partly why i like environmental politics as a way in. i agree we're getting off the topic that came up....
ESA
I think there is a fine line between employed and unemployed.
People labour for food, water, shelter, etc.
Are thieves employed?
No theyre not.
Well they are. But in the broader sense of working class solidarity, theyre not because they fucking work to get thw shit they need to survive
Btw jess, that argument about organizing the unemployed into fucking with the employed is not an actual thing. You are not quoting other smarter people. This is something you made up. Cite your sources.
Jessica Amber Murray
you're right, sort of. it's an original extrapolation. if full communism depends on superproduction through mechanized labour, that means eliminating jobs and increasing the number of unemployed people. as the number of unemployed people increases, the lumpenproletariat grows into a larger revolutionary force. the idea that the unemployed are the only possible agitating class goes right back to bakunin, though.
ESA
Lol i think there are enough employed members of the lumpen proletariat.
Jessica Amber Murray
?
ESA
Like wage slavery, sweat shops. Fuck the state protects this shit to keep people so busy they cant organize because theyre too busy feeding their families
( i meanf there are A LOT of employed members)
(Im typing fast on my phone)
What of the migrant workers?
Jessica Amber Murray
i think that's the traditional proletariat. but i don't want to create jobs and fight for workers rights. i want to eliminate jobs through mechanization, on the path to full communism. the first step is eliminating jobs in damaging sectors, like the automotive industry, and turning what would be workers in that industry into unemployed people that can agitate against the system.
ESA
Lolol the immigrants who are paid subminimum
Are prostetutes employed?
I guess not.
The only people who are unemployed TRULY, i guess, are the people who receive state funding, aka ODSP, and so basically to build this revolutionary class, you need people to get state funding
Jessica Amber Murray
they're still employed, erin. so, they're still ultimately aligned with the aims of their employers. prostitutes are self-employed, i don't know, they're in a weird place between lumpen and bourgeois. i don't know how useful it is to go through every type of labour and try and categorize, or if it's even possible (an adult film star is proletariat technically, but depending on income their class interests change).
ESA
But i would assume the state wouldnt like a buncg of revolutionaries taking their money in order to get rid of them
So tell me who is unemployed, then. And self-employed people are still employed.
I guess you could go around and organize people who live with their parents
Lolol you could organize polly amd (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis
Theyre lumpen proletariat apparently
Jessica Amber Murray
state aid is actually a blocking point. welfare was created precisely to stop revolutionary movements. now, i've talked about working with squatters. regardless, the point of this is that the unemployed are willing to agitate precisely *because* they don't have a secure source of income. so long as people are fed and secure, they will continue being slaves and not revolt.
ESA
Sorry, now im just taking the piss.
Who the fuck are the unemployed, according to you
Thats my point. You dont have a definitjon. Thats what im challenging.
And if state aid is a blocking point, then how would you survivr without it and still be unemployed
Jessica Amber Murray
you're tearing down a strawman, erin. the proletariat is the group of people that must survive by selling their labour. the lumpenproletariat is the subclass of the proletariat that is unable to sell their labour. the existence of state systems to neutralize the revolutionary potential of this underclass doesn't negate their existence. they are the people that cannot convince an employer to hire them.
ESA
Unless you had money already, or lived wihlth your parents.
Thanks reitorating what ive already been talking aboht because you think im a dumbass. Lol
If you read about the iww.
Jessica Amber Murray
what i'm looking for is the most desperate members of society. that is the idea - revolt is a function of desperation. some of them are getting around $500/month from welfare, which doesn't even cover shelter. others work under the table.
yes, some of them live with their parents. i don't see why that's such a terrible thing. most cultures have three or four generations under the same roof.
ESA
They believe, as well many others , that creating a distinction between working classs, middle class, lumpenproletariat and proletariat is just a means for the bosses and the power structure to divide people against eachother
i agree with you like a billion percent
Im just pointng out that its fucked up to create such a huge distinction. On the one hand, youre saying you want to organize people who basicallly have nothing to lose because theyre unemployed, but on the other hand youre saying you want to organize the downtrodden and desperate people who cant sell their labour.
But these so called unemployed people DO sell their labour, or they do exchange their labour for the shit they need to survive.
Or theyre people like you on odsp
Or they already have money. In which case theyre not the lumpen proletariat.
So the only unemployed lumpenproletariat people are people who use state funding
But yes i am interested in organizing the most desperate members of society.
Because thats the way to do it.
The whole unemployement/ iww hating argument makes no sense.
And has been debunked.
Goodbye.
(Btw im not mad. I
Am bored i the hospital
Jessica Amber Murray
they're the people that use state-funding (often insufficient) and/or are self-employed, yes. obviously. the background, exactly, isn't relevant. i don't feel you're fully understanding why i'm not interested in working with an organized union movement, and are tearing down some kind of argument that i didn't make.
ESA
I never said self-employed.
Self employed is not unemployed
Jessica Amber Murray
well, a prostitute or a busker is sort of self-employed. they don't have a boss. they're also sort of unemployed because they don't have a job.
regardless, this isn't the point of any of this, the point has to do with time. a lot of students fall into the category of unemployed...
time and interests.
ESA
Lol im tearing down your stupid thing about the iww not caring about the lumpen proletariat
Also you basically want to do what the black panthers did
Jessica Amber Murray
i didn't say the iww didn't care about the lumpenproletariat. and, yes, the black panthers, minus the questionable race politics, are a good model, i think.
what i said was that revolutionary politics through organized labour is a waste of time.
ESA
Sorry theyre not interested in ORGANIZING the lumpenproletariat
Jessica Amber Murray
i didn't say that, either. i said *i'm* not interested in organizing the employed or working with unions of employed workers.
ESA
Questionable race politics? Are you fucking kidding?
That was their schtick.
Jessica Amber Murray
well, some of it went a little overboard. i don't want to google an example or anything, but i'm a little more interested in something that is broadly post-racial.
ESA
Anyways the last paragraph of their platform is about intersectionality between the labour movement
And how everyone is working class, both employed and unemplyed
It was ALL class struggle
Thats the whole point of the party
They also organizd with white, latino and.other.organizations doing the same thing
I think you need to explain more about their questionable race politics. So i can debunk your arguments
They were ANTI black racism and against the Nation of Islam's kill whitey mentality
And vehemently against cultural nationalism. Some of their members were even assassinated by cultural natjonalist groups
Jessica Amber Murray
i don't really know a whole lot about the black panthers, and don't really feel comfortable debating specifics about them. what i meant was simply that i'm not really comfortable with the concept of racial politics. i see race as something that was created by capitalism and should be more or less abolished along with it. i'm also a mild cultural imperialist liberal (although i wouldn't use those terms, i'm being tongue-in-cheek) in the sense that i'm not really in favour of nurturing specific groups that are based on cultural, racial or religious identities and i tend to get uncomfortable when i see them develop as a reaction to systemic inequality. it strikes me as propping up the artificial division that ought not exist in the first place. so, the mere existence of a 'black group' that focuses on 'black interests' strike me as inherently capitalistic. it's sort of a necessary reaction, but it's a function of the problem, and i'm always concerned that it's going to... well, israel. 'nuff said. let's take a step back to the iww. let us say we have a factory that is mechanizing, and is about to lay off thousands of workers as well as reduce the hours of the workers it keeps. would you expect the iww to support or oppose this? and aren't you supposed to be out of the hospital today?
ESA
They would support the works and the workers laid off
Well i mean. Its so fucking small these days, the iww has like no power or money
So it doesnt matter.
Jessica Amber Murray
see, i'd support mechanization as being on the path to communism. i'll show up to wage theft cases and show my support, though. and other things. but it's just not something i can *join*. lol @ it doesn't matter. just a sec, i have a song for you....
ESA
Also the stuff about race politics i agree with and huey p newton says that same thing over and over.
They basically started as cop watch in their community in oakland which was like 98 percent black. The reason why they have only black people ithe party is because they want to piss of cops.
Jessica Amber Murray
heh. well, maybe i'm more in agreement with them than i realize. that's something for me to read up on.
ESA
Also create an identity and structhre for other black communities. Theyre very fucking clear about it not being abut race. The fact was that. Black people were pidgeonholed into ghettos that were black.
Read Seize the Time.
By bobby seale. Omfg its the best ever
Yeah. They even fought black racists. Like they had a lot of white externals. Like lawyers amd other activists.
They were in a lot coalitions too with white liberals who would give them money and support.
Jessica Amber Murray
yeah, like john lennon. heh. black history is definitely a blind spot for me. it's either all coming to me through white people (like zinn) or is quite old (like douglass).
ESA
Lol watch drunk history
With douglass
And abraham lincoln
Anyways i think my politics are almost entirely due to the black panther party politics
Thats why i love them so much
Their model is so applicable in every fucking sttruggle
Also cop watch is great
Trolling cops is one of the most effective strategies for holding them accountable "a laughed at pig is a dead pig"
Thats eldridge cleaver
Jessica Amber Murray
geez, i came in here to get a phone number to call an isp, and now i've only get a half hour left on my battery. that's ok, but i need to get on that. and it's 4:00 already. aaaah. are they letting you out soon? or is it voluntary? i know when my mom was in for heroin, it was voluntary. i think when my sister was in for cutting herself it was voluntary. it was like "We want you to stay, but we can't stop you from leaving" sort of thing.
ESA
Holy hebrew in the hallway
People are yelling!
Haha
Theyre keeping me until i have shit set up on the outside. And until they think im not going to kill myself
Theyrr like "are you feeling suicidal" and im like "well ya i have to listen to people scream in pain all fucki.g night and its horrible here"
But if i wanted to kill myself here, i could have EASILY
So no, i dont think its voluntary, though it techincally is. Theyre mKing me stay until the social worker has shit set up
Also my bandmates still havent said anything to me about being hospitalized. I guess they still think im responsible or something. I dont know
Havent even written one tiny note acknowledging that i tried to commit suicide in part because of them
Its not like im somehow magically cured. If the doctors gave a shit, they would put me into a DBT program. But they dont. So nothing has changed
Jessica Amber Murray
i use to tell a story about the anarchist that ended up breaking rocks for twenty years after blowing up a bank in protest of wage slavery. :}. DBT? i should probably tell you that i sent a message to al and as a few days before that called them out for sending a list like that to you, that they should have known it was going to be taken horribly and that you need some serious friend level support. i didn't think you'd try and commit suicide, but...
ESA
Oh jesus can i read what you wrote
Jessica Amber Murray
sure, just a sec
ESA
I have been getting ridiculous support. Its actually amazin. illuminous blabbed to a bunch of people.
All been visiting me all the time
Because they dont antagonize me for having mental health problems.
DBT is the only treatment for borderline personality disorder
But i dont want people to know i have that.
Jessica Amber Murray
august 22, 19:04 ok. hi guys. erin doesn't know i'm writing this, and it's not meant to be coercive on the business end of things in any way. i have a tendency to write too much, and i really just want to get a simple point across, so i'm going to try and be concise. i'm just concerned that the business side of things is maybe being a bit blinding. you sent erin a list of demands; you really should have expected her to interpret it as a list of reasons that people hate her. of course, she's crushed. yet, you might not be fully cognizant of the reality that she's more crushed on a personal level than a business one, and that's the simple point i want to get across. if she's still a friend, she needs to hear that. sending erin a list like that has a very predictable outcome of throwing her into another unstable state and pushing on another episode. she probably wouldn't have gone to the hospital on friday if i hadn't convinced her of the seriousness of what she was going through. i'm not entirely sure anybody else is really aware of the seriousness of what she was going through. i don't know how she ended up with enough meth in her to set off a night of heavy hallucinations and a week of psychosis, but a meth overdose is a seriously shitty thing for your body that requires serious medical attention. imagine that your body is a machine. meth is an upper, and there's a threat it will blow up your circulatory system like other uppers, but it's also a poison that (on overdose) will set off a sort of rapid rusting process that ends in sudden heart attacks, strokes, kidney or liver damage. *mass organ failure*. worse, there's no warning signals other than the lingering hangover type effcts she was dealing with. the od lingers on for hours; the heart attack or kidney failure that occurs as a result of the od could happen days after the od reaction. so, observation with the naked eye isn't very useful in determining the condition; there are more clinical tests that need to be performed to determine if there's a threat. it is not a drug anybody should do for any reason, recreational or medical. yet, it is cut along with a lot of popular recreational street drugs, and is THE reason to not do street drugs, so people end up accidentally doing meth quite often - and accidentally overdosing on it as well. for future reference, you should both realize that if you think yourself or a friend is going through even a moderate meth overdose then you should treat it like they've swallowed bleach or something and seek medical aid immediately. thankfully, she was ok, but that wasn't clear on friday afternoon and it's not clear that she would have been ok had she not got that saline and valium. as she was going through this, she was talking about how all she was hearing from you guys was how she was hurting the band. i have to admit i was really taken aback by this: a friend of yours is going through a possibly life threatening drug overdose and your only concern is whether or not a crowd in montreal full of strangers might be a little upset about it. ??. what if she had collapsed from dehydration on stage or on the way there? would you take responsibility for that after prioritizing the band over your friend's health? again: what i'm doing here is trying to reintroduce a little bit of perspective that it seems like you've lost in an unfortunate process of prioritizing capitalism over friendship. maybe this band thing isn't going to work out, and maybe that's ok, but please be cognizant of the reality that you just dumped a stupendously sized hexagram of particularly foul shit on an extremely sensitive friend and now you've got a responsibility to help clean up the mess... jess
ESA
Lol it wasnt a meth overdose
It was a panic attack and extreme anxiety. The same symptoms happened later when i was having a bad flashback
But thats beside the point
Jessica Amber Murray
i got a really, like, lawyerly response from as.
ESA
Haha lol. It wasnt a fucking meth overdosse.
Jessica Amber Murray
well, you sort of said it was after.
ESA
Yeah well i thought it could maybe be
It was anxiety. The same shit has happened to me to the same extreme later.
Miranda played some industrial music and the same thing happdned. Horrible hallucinations and then rapid heart, sore jaw etc.
Sore back sore head
Same shit.
Inability to walk
Same fucking thing.
Anyways the whole point is that they havr been blaming me for getting drugged with lsd. Which is what it was
Because the flashbacks have clear trigegers and are intense and all psychadelic... like shit turns are pixelatex kinda
Lol stupendously sized hexagram. Lol amazing that was a good ending.
Jessica Amber Murray
i was under the impression that "acid flashbacks" were sort of a myth. meth actually *does* produce lingering psychosis, though. either way, i agree the point isn't the kind of drug, obviously....
ESA
Anyways, the verdict after talking to several psychiatrists was that it was acid. Meth psychosis only happens with long term addicts. Also the psychosis does not include acid flashbacks
No its definitely not a myth. Same thing happened when i was 17.
The point is that they were shity
It fucks up triggers in my brain and then causes this condition thats called post hallucination-somethingorother disorder. Its a thing. lenin told me about it. Shrinks told me about it.
Somebody fucking drugged me.
Jessica Amber Murray
i'm not doubting somebody drugged you. what i was thinking was that a cocktail developed and led to the OD.
ESA
lol. Even a drug interaction doesnt cause you to be high on acid
Its a very specific thing.
Also every thing that happened after that is sooooooo lsd. Like being extremely sensitive to alcohol for days after. Being disorientdd etc
What did as write back
Was it super shitty but diplomatic
Jessica Amber Murray
well, ok. but you didn't get a blood test for lsd, did you? meth does cause hallucinations of the type you described. given that you took ecstasy on purpose, it’s occam’s razor that it was probably a meth od, rather than somebody randomly drugging you with lsd for no apparent reason. but, i know i’m not a doctor. i'll get as's response...
ESA
I kinda dont wanna read it.
Jessica Amber Murray
well, ok. it was...lawyery. like she was concerned about the band's reputation first.
ESA
Lsd is hard to test for. also, these festival hippies are notorious for druggng people with ghb and lsd, and i did research and every single fucking one had almost exactly the same experience.
I cant believe ive been friends with her this long.
Jessica Amber Murray
the way i interpreted it was that i was talking about the business side overshadowing the friend side and the need to realize that and refocus, and she responded like it was all business.
ESA
You also have me like figured out
Not a lot of people do.
Jessica Amber Murray
i think you've got a few surprises for me, still. i think i mentioned you remind me a lot of my little sister in a lot of ways, though.
ESA
Actually i want to read it. I cant trick myself into thinking they have respect or even care about me
Jessica Amber Murray
well, i think they care on some level. 23 August 02:01 Hi Jess, Thanks for your concern and for your message.We were actually quite concerned for her health on Friday and remain concerned about her. When she called me early Friday morning, I was shocked that the friends who were with her throughout the night didn't bring her to the hospital when she began experiencing odd symptoms, and I expressed that to her. I also told her multiple times throughout the day that she should go to the hospital to get checked out. Al expressed these concerns to me as well, and I'm certain that she would have expressed this to Erin as well.We went over the list we sent Erin with her and a mediator of her choosing this evening and clarified what we meant by them. Erin is amenable to them for the purposes of an upcoming gig. We are continuing with those discussions and I'm sure she will keep you up to date as she desires as to the details of them.Thanks for convincing her to go to the hospital. We're still concerned about her ongoing health issues and are still there for her to call as she's working through that as we always have been.If you have further concerns, please feel free to let me know. All the best, A.....
ESA
You me your match when it comes to long emails
Weird she didnt write a long response
Lolol
Theyre so fucking stupid i hate when people do that
Jessica Amber Murray
well, who the fuck am i, reallyÉ ack. french. and my battery is telling me the machine is going to shut down. i gotta disappear, be back a little later tonight....
ESA
They changed the meaning of all their conditinns
Because they realized how shitty they were being and they knew i was right
After the fact.
K see ya latrr.
Say hi to everyone for me
Jessica Amber Murray
ha. everyone includes myself, and my reflection in my mirror.
Lol about ramshackles
Jessica Amber Murray
*shrug*. what i was writing was going to end up elsewhere, anyways, and i'm really no longer remotely interested in the kind of class struggle politics that they're pushing, with little if any kind of consequence. history doesn't seem to have anything to teach them; they seem to be content repeating the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. i just wanted to lay it out before i left. i wasn't expecting much, but there was that bit of hope that it might get through to them. as it is, i'll send them the link to the blog post instead... i guess they'll probably be happier when left to their cognitive dissonance in peace. i think most of them know that their circle jerk is really just a drinking game. i don't want to focus on five generations from now, i don't really care about five generations from now, i want to live my own life in the closest approximation to freedom that i can conjure together. i want what i want, and i want it now. the slowpoke, systemic marxist viewpoints and approaches they take (not all of them, and not all of the time, but in general) are just not aligned with what i want to work towards. well, that, and a handful of the people in that group (and aligned with the movement in ottawa) are seriously dangerous, authoritarian idiots that should not be organized with - i'm thinking nehru, (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, polly and lavey specifically. reality is that they're just the wave of authoritarian idiots i came into contact with. there was a wave before them, and there'll be a wave after them. it's the marxist system of organizing that keeps providing soapboxes and hierarchies for them to take advantage of. i can't treat them as temporary allies anymore, they just scare me too much...
it doesn't really matter. i don't want to launch an attack against that group or single anybody out. i'm not going to single anybody out or reference anybody by name or anything. it's not about my ego, and i don't want to make it about anybody else's ego. i'll maintain everybody's anonymity. see, the crux of what i'm saying is that it's the system of organizing that is counter-productive and isn't going to lead to anything except new systems of oppression (in reality, these groups are not going anywhere at all, but if they did...). it's the system i want to focus on, and new approaches i want to suggest.
ESA
I agree with this in some ways, but I think that you're forgetting that you're attacking a VERY unfocused group of so-called activists. Not to say that people like (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, lavey and whoever else don't organize, but none of them organize together. And besides those two and a few others, I don't think anybody has organized anything ever. I mean, come on, REALLY? Polly? Seriously? Nehru? From what I've heard of Nehru is that he's just a racist bigot who would rather accuse people of having white privilege (when they're not white and definitely arab), or just legit hating on white people for the colour of their skin. No fucking analysis ever. I think you know that though. And people don't like people called on their lack of analysis. If Nehru is anything like slimer, he's a waste of fucking space. Most people don't understand that it is a class struggle, or at least a STRUGGLE, and are content in the activist circle jerk. Because they're too comfortable in their bourgie fucking homes where they don't have to worry about any real bullshit. They just see themselves as heroes out to save humanity. No solidarity. And this is Ottawa. I disagree about (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis and lavey though.
I think your comments should be more directly targeted.
It does come off as a bunch of bullshit generalizations
and then people are just insulted because the arguement therefore sucks
and also you're insulting them.
So I would just insult people and make your arguements very clear. Not that people give a shit or want that, but I think it would be better than the alternative.
The alternative being that you don't really call any one group out directly. the IWW, sure. but besides that not so much.
Jessica Amber Murray
but, that's missing the point of the critique, which is basically a standard anarchist criticism of marxism: when you set up groups with leaders, you end up with hierarchies that end up oppressing people. it's not really the people, it's the means of organizing. you throw those specific people out and continue organizing in hierarchies and you're going to get the same problems. i'm getting into the same problem i had with (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, which is that i haven't actually written the critique. i actually have this problem with TAs a lot and a drives me fucking crazy because i shouldn't be sitting around calling TAs illiterate idiots. an introductory, thesis-like statement is meant to summarize what follows. it's not a "generalization", it's a summary of the more in depth analysis that will follow. i explained that to (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis repeatedly, but he doesn't listen when people speak.
writing off the introduction of an essay as a generalization is the kind of thing that drives me bonkers.
ESA
Lol. Ok well i disagree with you
I think people wrongfully see themselves as leaders
And they think they are more worthy and more right than others
Its because of this that they think that other people are less worthy of being as involved or as influential in organizing.
And thinking people are less worthy is fjcked up and non anarchist at all
Like polly is a marxist. I wwould say a lot of people are.
But not (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis. I think (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis is just louder than other people.
You just are NOT clear about which group you are analyzing.
I dont get the impression that in Line9 organizing its structured that way.
In decli.e 9
Jessica Amber Murray
i think, with (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, if you were to ask him to fill out a multiple choice exam where he had to pick which statements came from bakunin and which statements came from marx the only ones he'd get right would be guesses, and he'd probably get most of it wrong. meaning, i don't think he really knows what the difference is. polly, i think does. on the one hand, that's not awful. i don't think he see himself as an intellectual. he's more interested in doing than thinking. i'm the opposite; i'm useless at anything besides analysis. he's not wrong to point that out, but he's a fool for not realizing the need for thinkers in society. that's what has begun to scare me about him, his anti-intellectualism. i've been vocal about the need for both types of people in a movement and that they need to play off on each other's strengths. i can't organize like (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis. he doesn't know as much as i do. these two types should work together; he's not at all interested, he just reacts with his ego. now, i'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but i think that the organizing ideals and structures that exist are at the root cause of things. we live in a system that produces hierarchy, so self-appointed leaders are going to arise. organizing structures need to work in ways that neutralize that leadership, not merely provide vessels for authoritarians to take control.
ESA
polly does know the difference but is a.marxist in how youre describing
In the same way that hes a sexist as fuck in his life but philosophically hes a feminist and knows evverything about feminism
I agree with the second paragraph, but it seems like youre more interested in criticizng people, rather than giving input.
Obviously you know a lot and have good insight. But people like khrtis dont give a fuck if youre calling him a marxist or not
I think if you had related it specifically to what he change in his tactics and how he could change it, that might have been more well received.
Another thing, (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis wasnt really upset. More like "who the fuck doees jess think she is!?" Which is the same reaction i have to you 90 percent of the time. But i kind of appreciate your arrrogance.
I really give zero fucks about what somebody thinks unless they have practical experience. I am also a pragmatist. But if someone wants to be like "i would suggest you do this otherwise" i will take that into considration.
Also most of these socalled anarchists dont give a fuck about the lumpen proletariat which is what youve basically said a bajillion times. And fuck yeah i agree. People are classist as fuck and dont understand how important it is to organize these people before theyre organized against us.
Which is why polly is a marxist. He disregards people based on their lack of forrmal education and what theyre wearing and what they look like. He is only one of many people tho
Jessica Amber Murray
argh. i was getting to a more specific analysis. i keep saying that. this is literally judging a book by it's introduction. i dunno, maybe it's my fault, maybe i should have written the entire 40 pages out and sent it all at the same time. but nobody would have read it.
in the end, my arguments (which are not really *my* arguments) in favour of working with the section of the proletariat that is not able to find employment are based upon the now ancient observation - which has largely turned out to be true - that employed workers may be in a struggle with their bosses but that actually revolutionary goals are not within their interests, and so revolution can never happen by organizing employed workers. it just turns into a fight over benefits that ultimately strengthens the system. you know who understood that best? fucking liberals. that doesn't apply to (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, though. (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis is within that class, and i haven't interpreted him as being particularly interested in labour politics. i wasn't really initially aiming any of what i said at (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis. his response really scared me, though. i think it brought out a side of his nature i was previously unaware of and i'm now very cautious of.
again, it doesn't really matter. i'm way out in windsor now, and i'm not coming back. i can use my experience as a case study in moving forwards. but, there's not any value in working through the specific any further.
i currently have him blocked. i was expecting that he was just going to keep going and going, and as i pointed out i don't really think the reaction was about me. i think it's a complex thing that has to do with me maybe triggering him a little. (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis reminds me a lot of a friend i had in high school that had some learning disabilities and developed a really strong negative reaction to anybody that may be interpreted as a 'teacher'. teachers made him feel inferior for ten years of his life. so, while i reject that i talk down to him, i'll acknowledge that i may be triggering something in him as far as that is concerned - largely by comparison with that friend. ultimately, though, i don't think that's what set off the nature of the response. i think what set off the nature of the response is that he's upset about the things that have been happening around him. i'm generally empathetic to that kind of thing, i can take a lot of shit, but i was trying to get a point across and he was just going to continue being disruptive. i'll unblock him in a few days and see where things go from there. but i'm not really particularly invested or interested. i don't like conflict, though, and it would be nice to at least get back on cordial terms.
ESA
you said some really ridiculous shit though. Man, if i were on that group i would have trolled the fuck outta you. Abot how you know more than people, and how you are altruistic and how people should be grateful to you for your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share.
I think that its not even mostly about the arguments you had that pissed off (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis, but how ridiculously and strangely arrogant you were. Your argument really lacked tact in that way.
Im not really arguing with the content of what you said.
I agree with you, though i think you haave some falsse interpretations on the iww, though i dont want to get into that because i typing only on my phone.
Jessica Amber Murray
i don't think what i said was ridiculous. i think it was brutally honest, and entirely accurate. sometimes honesty is fucking awful, but i don't pretend i'm tactful. i'll acknowledge that i don't often understand that other people react badly to honesty, but i'm not blaming myself for that.
what i need to do is invent a chip that turns everybody into robots like me, then mass implant it in everyone. then i'd never get into conflicts with people!
ESA
Because IWW was founded on the basis that workers (both employed and unemployed) are the laboring class, and does not create a distinction there at all. So when you talk about organizkng the unemployed, thats awesome, but isnt against the IWW mandate as a whole.
Jessica Amber Murray
no, i think there IS a distinction!!
ESA
No what you said wasnt ridiculous.
Lumpen proletariat and proletriaat.
But that still isnt in conflict with what you were sayinv. Whatever
Bitches be down with organizing folks who are unemployed and dejected
Jessica Amber Murray
i think the unemployed need to organize in ways that are directly harmful to the employed. that's partly why i like environmental politics as a way in. i agree we're getting off the topic that came up....
ESA
I think there is a fine line between employed and unemployed.
People labour for food, water, shelter, etc.
Are thieves employed?
No theyre not.
Well they are. But in the broader sense of working class solidarity, theyre not because they fucking work to get thw shit they need to survive
Btw jess, that argument about organizing the unemployed into fucking with the employed is not an actual thing. You are not quoting other smarter people. This is something you made up. Cite your sources.
Jessica Amber Murray
you're right, sort of. it's an original extrapolation. if full communism depends on superproduction through mechanized labour, that means eliminating jobs and increasing the number of unemployed people. as the number of unemployed people increases, the lumpenproletariat grows into a larger revolutionary force. the idea that the unemployed are the only possible agitating class goes right back to bakunin, though.
ESA
Lol i think there are enough employed members of the lumpen proletariat.
Jessica Amber Murray
?
ESA
Like wage slavery, sweat shops. Fuck the state protects this shit to keep people so busy they cant organize because theyre too busy feeding their families
( i meanf there are A LOT of employed members)
(Im typing fast on my phone)
What of the migrant workers?
Jessica Amber Murray
i think that's the traditional proletariat. but i don't want to create jobs and fight for workers rights. i want to eliminate jobs through mechanization, on the path to full communism. the first step is eliminating jobs in damaging sectors, like the automotive industry, and turning what would be workers in that industry into unemployed people that can agitate against the system.
ESA
Lolol the immigrants who are paid subminimum
Are prostetutes employed?
I guess not.
The only people who are unemployed TRULY, i guess, are the people who receive state funding, aka ODSP, and so basically to build this revolutionary class, you need people to get state funding
Jessica Amber Murray
they're still employed, erin. so, they're still ultimately aligned with the aims of their employers. prostitutes are self-employed, i don't know, they're in a weird place between lumpen and bourgeois. i don't know how useful it is to go through every type of labour and try and categorize, or if it's even possible (an adult film star is proletariat technically, but depending on income their class interests change).
ESA
But i would assume the state wouldnt like a buncg of revolutionaries taking their money in order to get rid of them
So tell me who is unemployed, then. And self-employed people are still employed.
I guess you could go around and organize people who live with their parents
Lolol you could organize polly amd (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis
Theyre lumpen proletariat apparently
Jessica Amber Murray
state aid is actually a blocking point. welfare was created precisely to stop revolutionary movements. now, i've talked about working with squatters. regardless, the point of this is that the unemployed are willing to agitate precisely *because* they don't have a secure source of income. so long as people are fed and secure, they will continue being slaves and not revolt.
ESA
Sorry, now im just taking the piss.
Who the fuck are the unemployed, according to you
Thats my point. You dont have a definitjon. Thats what im challenging.
And if state aid is a blocking point, then how would you survivr without it and still be unemployed
Jessica Amber Murray
you're tearing down a strawman, erin. the proletariat is the group of people that must survive by selling their labour. the lumpenproletariat is the subclass of the proletariat that is unable to sell their labour. the existence of state systems to neutralize the revolutionary potential of this underclass doesn't negate their existence. they are the people that cannot convince an employer to hire them.
ESA
Unless you had money already, or lived wihlth your parents.
Thanks reitorating what ive already been talking aboht because you think im a dumbass. Lol
If you read about the iww.
Jessica Amber Murray
what i'm looking for is the most desperate members of society. that is the idea - revolt is a function of desperation. some of them are getting around $500/month from welfare, which doesn't even cover shelter. others work under the table.
yes, some of them live with their parents. i don't see why that's such a terrible thing. most cultures have three or four generations under the same roof.
ESA
They believe, as well many others , that creating a distinction between working classs, middle class, lumpenproletariat and proletariat is just a means for the bosses and the power structure to divide people against eachother
i agree with you like a billion percent
Im just pointng out that its fucked up to create such a huge distinction. On the one hand, youre saying you want to organize people who basicallly have nothing to lose because theyre unemployed, but on the other hand youre saying you want to organize the downtrodden and desperate people who cant sell their labour.
But these so called unemployed people DO sell their labour, or they do exchange their labour for the shit they need to survive.
Or theyre people like you on odsp
Or they already have money. In which case theyre not the lumpen proletariat.
So the only unemployed lumpenproletariat people are people who use state funding
But yes i am interested in organizing the most desperate members of society.
Because thats the way to do it.
The whole unemployement/ iww hating argument makes no sense.
And has been debunked.
Goodbye.
(Btw im not mad. I
Am bored i the hospital
Jessica Amber Murray
they're the people that use state-funding (often insufficient) and/or are self-employed, yes. obviously. the background, exactly, isn't relevant. i don't feel you're fully understanding why i'm not interested in working with an organized union movement, and are tearing down some kind of argument that i didn't make.
ESA
I never said self-employed.
Self employed is not unemployed
Jessica Amber Murray
well, a prostitute or a busker is sort of self-employed. they don't have a boss. they're also sort of unemployed because they don't have a job.
regardless, this isn't the point of any of this, the point has to do with time. a lot of students fall into the category of unemployed...
time and interests.
ESA
Lol im tearing down your stupid thing about the iww not caring about the lumpen proletariat
Also you basically want to do what the black panthers did
Jessica Amber Murray
i didn't say the iww didn't care about the lumpenproletariat. and, yes, the black panthers, minus the questionable race politics, are a good model, i think.
what i said was that revolutionary politics through organized labour is a waste of time.
ESA
Sorry theyre not interested in ORGANIZING the lumpenproletariat
Jessica Amber Murray
i didn't say that, either. i said *i'm* not interested in organizing the employed or working with unions of employed workers.
ESA
Questionable race politics? Are you fucking kidding?
That was their schtick.
Jessica Amber Murray
well, some of it went a little overboard. i don't want to google an example or anything, but i'm a little more interested in something that is broadly post-racial.
ESA
Anyways the last paragraph of their platform is about intersectionality between the labour movement
And how everyone is working class, both employed and unemplyed
It was ALL class struggle
Thats the whole point of the party
They also organizd with white, latino and.other.organizations doing the same thing
I think you need to explain more about their questionable race politics. So i can debunk your arguments
They were ANTI black racism and against the Nation of Islam's kill whitey mentality
And vehemently against cultural nationalism. Some of their members were even assassinated by cultural natjonalist groups
Jessica Amber Murray
i don't really know a whole lot about the black panthers, and don't really feel comfortable debating specifics about them. what i meant was simply that i'm not really comfortable with the concept of racial politics. i see race as something that was created by capitalism and should be more or less abolished along with it. i'm also a mild cultural imperialist liberal (although i wouldn't use those terms, i'm being tongue-in-cheek) in the sense that i'm not really in favour of nurturing specific groups that are based on cultural, racial or religious identities and i tend to get uncomfortable when i see them develop as a reaction to systemic inequality. it strikes me as propping up the artificial division that ought not exist in the first place. so, the mere existence of a 'black group' that focuses on 'black interests' strike me as inherently capitalistic. it's sort of a necessary reaction, but it's a function of the problem, and i'm always concerned that it's going to... well, israel. 'nuff said. let's take a step back to the iww. let us say we have a factory that is mechanizing, and is about to lay off thousands of workers as well as reduce the hours of the workers it keeps. would you expect the iww to support or oppose this? and aren't you supposed to be out of the hospital today?
ESA
They would support the works and the workers laid off
Well i mean. Its so fucking small these days, the iww has like no power or money
So it doesnt matter.
Jessica Amber Murray
see, i'd support mechanization as being on the path to communism. i'll show up to wage theft cases and show my support, though. and other things. but it's just not something i can *join*. lol @ it doesn't matter. just a sec, i have a song for you....
ESA
Also the stuff about race politics i agree with and huey p newton says that same thing over and over.
They basically started as cop watch in their community in oakland which was like 98 percent black. The reason why they have only black people ithe party is because they want to piss of cops.
Jessica Amber Murray
heh. well, maybe i'm more in agreement with them than i realize. that's something for me to read up on.
ESA
Also create an identity and structhre for other black communities. Theyre very fucking clear about it not being abut race. The fact was that. Black people were pidgeonholed into ghettos that were black.
Read Seize the Time.
By bobby seale. Omfg its the best ever
Yeah. They even fought black racists. Like they had a lot of white externals. Like lawyers amd other activists.
They were in a lot coalitions too with white liberals who would give them money and support.
Jessica Amber Murray
yeah, like john lennon. heh. black history is definitely a blind spot for me. it's either all coming to me through white people (like zinn) or is quite old (like douglass).
ESA
Lol watch drunk history
With douglass
And abraham lincoln
Anyways i think my politics are almost entirely due to the black panther party politics
Thats why i love them so much
Their model is so applicable in every fucking sttruggle
Also cop watch is great
Trolling cops is one of the most effective strategies for holding them accountable "a laughed at pig is a dead pig"
Thats eldridge cleaver
Jessica Amber Murray
geez, i came in here to get a phone number to call an isp, and now i've only get a half hour left on my battery. that's ok, but i need to get on that. and it's 4:00 already. aaaah. are they letting you out soon? or is it voluntary? i know when my mom was in for heroin, it was voluntary. i think when my sister was in for cutting herself it was voluntary. it was like "We want you to stay, but we can't stop you from leaving" sort of thing.
ESA
Holy hebrew in the hallway
People are yelling!
Haha
Theyre keeping me until i have shit set up on the outside. And until they think im not going to kill myself
Theyrr like "are you feeling suicidal" and im like "well ya i have to listen to people scream in pain all fucki.g night and its horrible here"
But if i wanted to kill myself here, i could have EASILY
So no, i dont think its voluntary, though it techincally is. Theyre mKing me stay until the social worker has shit set up
Also my bandmates still havent said anything to me about being hospitalized. I guess they still think im responsible or something. I dont know
Havent even written one tiny note acknowledging that i tried to commit suicide in part because of them
Its not like im somehow magically cured. If the doctors gave a shit, they would put me into a DBT program. But they dont. So nothing has changed
Jessica Amber Murray
i use to tell a story about the anarchist that ended up breaking rocks for twenty years after blowing up a bank in protest of wage slavery. :}. DBT? i should probably tell you that i sent a message to al and as a few days before that called them out for sending a list like that to you, that they should have known it was going to be taken horribly and that you need some serious friend level support. i didn't think you'd try and commit suicide, but...
ESA
Oh jesus can i read what you wrote
Jessica Amber Murray
sure, just a sec
ESA
I have been getting ridiculous support. Its actually amazin. illuminous blabbed to a bunch of people.
All been visiting me all the time
Because they dont antagonize me for having mental health problems.
DBT is the only treatment for borderline personality disorder
But i dont want people to know i have that.
Jessica Amber Murray
august 22, 19:04 ok. hi guys. erin doesn't know i'm writing this, and it's not meant to be coercive on the business end of things in any way. i have a tendency to write too much, and i really just want to get a simple point across, so i'm going to try and be concise. i'm just concerned that the business side of things is maybe being a bit blinding. you sent erin a list of demands; you really should have expected her to interpret it as a list of reasons that people hate her. of course, she's crushed. yet, you might not be fully cognizant of the reality that she's more crushed on a personal level than a business one, and that's the simple point i want to get across. if she's still a friend, she needs to hear that. sending erin a list like that has a very predictable outcome of throwing her into another unstable state and pushing on another episode. she probably wouldn't have gone to the hospital on friday if i hadn't convinced her of the seriousness of what she was going through. i'm not entirely sure anybody else is really aware of the seriousness of what she was going through. i don't know how she ended up with enough meth in her to set off a night of heavy hallucinations and a week of psychosis, but a meth overdose is a seriously shitty thing for your body that requires serious medical attention. imagine that your body is a machine. meth is an upper, and there's a threat it will blow up your circulatory system like other uppers, but it's also a poison that (on overdose) will set off a sort of rapid rusting process that ends in sudden heart attacks, strokes, kidney or liver damage. *mass organ failure*. worse, there's no warning signals other than the lingering hangover type effcts she was dealing with. the od lingers on for hours; the heart attack or kidney failure that occurs as a result of the od could happen days after the od reaction. so, observation with the naked eye isn't very useful in determining the condition; there are more clinical tests that need to be performed to determine if there's a threat. it is not a drug anybody should do for any reason, recreational or medical. yet, it is cut along with a lot of popular recreational street drugs, and is THE reason to not do street drugs, so people end up accidentally doing meth quite often - and accidentally overdosing on it as well. for future reference, you should both realize that if you think yourself or a friend is going through even a moderate meth overdose then you should treat it like they've swallowed bleach or something and seek medical aid immediately. thankfully, she was ok, but that wasn't clear on friday afternoon and it's not clear that she would have been ok had she not got that saline and valium. as she was going through this, she was talking about how all she was hearing from you guys was how she was hurting the band. i have to admit i was really taken aback by this: a friend of yours is going through a possibly life threatening drug overdose and your only concern is whether or not a crowd in montreal full of strangers might be a little upset about it. ??. what if she had collapsed from dehydration on stage or on the way there? would you take responsibility for that after prioritizing the band over your friend's health? again: what i'm doing here is trying to reintroduce a little bit of perspective that it seems like you've lost in an unfortunate process of prioritizing capitalism over friendship. maybe this band thing isn't going to work out, and maybe that's ok, but please be cognizant of the reality that you just dumped a stupendously sized hexagram of particularly foul shit on an extremely sensitive friend and now you've got a responsibility to help clean up the mess... jess
ESA
Lol it wasnt a meth overdose
It was a panic attack and extreme anxiety. The same symptoms happened later when i was having a bad flashback
But thats beside the point
Jessica Amber Murray
i got a really, like, lawyerly response from as.
ESA
Haha lol. It wasnt a fucking meth overdosse.
Jessica Amber Murray
well, you sort of said it was after.
ESA
Yeah well i thought it could maybe be
It was anxiety. The same shit has happened to me to the same extreme later.
Miranda played some industrial music and the same thing happdned. Horrible hallucinations and then rapid heart, sore jaw etc.
Sore back sore head
Same shit.
Inability to walk
Same fucking thing.
Anyways the whole point is that they havr been blaming me for getting drugged with lsd. Which is what it was
Because the flashbacks have clear trigegers and are intense and all psychadelic... like shit turns are pixelatex kinda
Lol stupendously sized hexagram. Lol amazing that was a good ending.
Jessica Amber Murray
i was under the impression that "acid flashbacks" were sort of a myth. meth actually *does* produce lingering psychosis, though. either way, i agree the point isn't the kind of drug, obviously....
ESA
Anyways, the verdict after talking to several psychiatrists was that it was acid. Meth psychosis only happens with long term addicts. Also the psychosis does not include acid flashbacks
No its definitely not a myth. Same thing happened when i was 17.
The point is that they were shity
It fucks up triggers in my brain and then causes this condition thats called post hallucination-somethingorother disorder. Its a thing. lenin told me about it. Shrinks told me about it.
Somebody fucking drugged me.
Jessica Amber Murray
i'm not doubting somebody drugged you. what i was thinking was that a cocktail developed and led to the OD.
ESA
lol. Even a drug interaction doesnt cause you to be high on acid
Its a very specific thing.
Also every thing that happened after that is sooooooo lsd. Like being extremely sensitive to alcohol for days after. Being disorientdd etc
What did as write back
Was it super shitty but diplomatic
Jessica Amber Murray
well, ok. but you didn't get a blood test for lsd, did you? meth does cause hallucinations of the type you described. given that you took ecstasy on purpose, it’s occam’s razor that it was probably a meth od, rather than somebody randomly drugging you with lsd for no apparent reason. but, i know i’m not a doctor. i'll get as's response...
ESA
I kinda dont wanna read it.
Jessica Amber Murray
well, ok. it was...lawyery. like she was concerned about the band's reputation first.
ESA
Lsd is hard to test for. also, these festival hippies are notorious for druggng people with ghb and lsd, and i did research and every single fucking one had almost exactly the same experience.
I cant believe ive been friends with her this long.
Jessica Amber Murray
the way i interpreted it was that i was talking about the business side overshadowing the friend side and the need to realize that and refocus, and she responded like it was all business.
ESA
You also have me like figured out
Not a lot of people do.
Jessica Amber Murray
i think you've got a few surprises for me, still. i think i mentioned you remind me a lot of my little sister in a lot of ways, though.
ESA
Actually i want to read it. I cant trick myself into thinking they have respect or even care about me
Jessica Amber Murray
well, i think they care on some level. 23 August 02:01 Hi Jess, Thanks for your concern and for your message.We were actually quite concerned for her health on Friday and remain concerned about her. When she called me early Friday morning, I was shocked that the friends who were with her throughout the night didn't bring her to the hospital when she began experiencing odd symptoms, and I expressed that to her. I also told her multiple times throughout the day that she should go to the hospital to get checked out. Al expressed these concerns to me as well, and I'm certain that she would have expressed this to Erin as well.We went over the list we sent Erin with her and a mediator of her choosing this evening and clarified what we meant by them. Erin is amenable to them for the purposes of an upcoming gig. We are continuing with those discussions and I'm sure she will keep you up to date as she desires as to the details of them.Thanks for convincing her to go to the hospital. We're still concerned about her ongoing health issues and are still there for her to call as she's working through that as we always have been.If you have further concerns, please feel free to let me know. All the best, A.....
ESA
You me your match when it comes to long emails
Weird she didnt write a long response
Lolol
Theyre so fucking stupid i hate when people do that
Jessica Amber Murray
well, who the fuck am i, reallyÉ ack. french. and my battery is telling me the machine is going to shut down. i gotta disappear, be back a little later tonight....
ESA
They changed the meaning of all their conditinns
Because they realized how shitty they were being and they knew i was right
After the fact.
K see ya latrr.
Say hi to everyone for me
Jessica Amber Murray
ha. everyone includes myself, and my reflection in my mirror.
SDY
this is going well :p
Jessica Amber Murray
what is going well?
SDY
the thread
They aren't even listening
Jessica Amber Murray
oh. i removed myself and can't see it. is it still going?
SDY
polly posted a picture of a burning bridge, and (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis is commenting as his bike
Jessica Amber Murray
i remembered after that i have my other account in there, too. i was kind of weird about eavesdropping. if i go back in, i don't want it to be stealth/spying. i was going to eventually. i dunno. lol.
SDY
I hoped someone would act like an adult
this is going well :p
Jessica Amber Murray
what is going well?
SDY
the thread
They aren't even listening
Jessica Amber Murray
oh. i removed myself and can't see it. is it still going?
SDY
polly posted a picture of a burning bridge, and (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis is commenting as his bike
Jessica Amber Murray
i remembered after that i have my other account in there, too. i was kind of weird about eavesdropping. if i go back in, i don't want it to be stealth/spying. i was going to eventually. i dunno. lol.
SDY
I hoped someone would act like an adult
Polly
Hey, what was (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis on about? He blocked me recently
I am trying to figure out how much of that is me and how much of it is having a meltdown, also I have an intellectual interest in the debate
Jessica Amber Murray
i think i inadvertently bruised his ego and that, combined with other things that have been happening, set him off into some kind of tirade. i don't really think the reaction was particularly rooted in the comments i made, so much as they were in the language i used. really, he was just lacing into me for being "superior". nothing he said was really topical.
so, i don't know, really, i don't have much insight into why he reacted the way he did.
Polly
I was surprised to see he'd gone off on you, like it's difficult to assess how bridge burny he is being based on what passed between he and I, like I don't feel qualified to assess his grievances with me as a function of a larger pattern of hostility.
and previous folks he'd gone off on were more marginal to him
Jessica Amber Murray
well, he claims i talk down to him. which i think is probably a complex reaction to various things. i'll accept i might trigger him. and he snapped. but, again, i think the snapping was largely cursory to anything i said.
(and i'm in windsor now, and am not coming back, so maybe that contributed to me being an easy person to go off on)
Polly
that may also be true about me. I don't think he's doing too well. I'm on a library computer so I can't get into it, but while I didn't agree with your analysis I did think it was an interesting read and I didn't take it personally
I actually think the last of the group is disintegrating and there's a lot of anxiety and sensitivity around that
Jessica Amber Murray
yeah, that's sort of the impression i got, as well.
Polly
I am in a criticism taking headspace so I am interested; do you think I am an authoritarian or opportunist?
Jessica Amber Murray
i think you have ambitions in more traditional bourgeois politics, albeit on a local level. i think your interest in grassroots politics is largely about building support for those ambitions.
Polly
Truthfully, I'd never considered it. I've always thought of myself as profoundly unelectable and like you, maybe a little too interested in picking things apart intellectually to be a good politician. The thing that attracted me to anarchist organizing was the opportunity to have a voice in the conversation without the responsibility of a real leadership position.
But in a weird way, that is sort if a vote of confidence
And it does make me wonder
So I am considering it as of now. But even if municipal politics suck less, I am really more interested in parallel structures
But that it's mostly because I am presently broke and any job sounds pretty good
There's always the temptation to imagine one could be the "good" politician. But the structure is bad
It would be a betrayal of my politics, but I am not saying it would never happen. I an not yet as principled as I would like
Brb a salvation army run
And back
Hey, what was (the frequently arrested activist named) Kurtis on about? He blocked me recently
I am trying to figure out how much of that is me and how much of it is having a meltdown, also I have an intellectual interest in the debate
Jessica Amber Murray
i think i inadvertently bruised his ego and that, combined with other things that have been happening, set him off into some kind of tirade. i don't really think the reaction was particularly rooted in the comments i made, so much as they were in the language i used. really, he was just lacing into me for being "superior". nothing he said was really topical.
so, i don't know, really, i don't have much insight into why he reacted the way he did.
Polly
I was surprised to see he'd gone off on you, like it's difficult to assess how bridge burny he is being based on what passed between he and I, like I don't feel qualified to assess his grievances with me as a function of a larger pattern of hostility.
and previous folks he'd gone off on were more marginal to him
Jessica Amber Murray
well, he claims i talk down to him. which i think is probably a complex reaction to various things. i'll accept i might trigger him. and he snapped. but, again, i think the snapping was largely cursory to anything i said.
(and i'm in windsor now, and am not coming back, so maybe that contributed to me being an easy person to go off on)
Polly
that may also be true about me. I don't think he's doing too well. I'm on a library computer so I can't get into it, but while I didn't agree with your analysis I did think it was an interesting read and I didn't take it personally
I actually think the last of the group is disintegrating and there's a lot of anxiety and sensitivity around that
Jessica Amber Murray
yeah, that's sort of the impression i got, as well.
Polly
I am in a criticism taking headspace so I am interested; do you think I am an authoritarian or opportunist?
Jessica Amber Murray
i think you have ambitions in more traditional bourgeois politics, albeit on a local level. i think your interest in grassroots politics is largely about building support for those ambitions.
Polly
Truthfully, I'd never considered it. I've always thought of myself as profoundly unelectable and like you, maybe a little too interested in picking things apart intellectually to be a good politician. The thing that attracted me to anarchist organizing was the opportunity to have a voice in the conversation without the responsibility of a real leadership position.
But in a weird way, that is sort if a vote of confidence
And it does make me wonder
So I am considering it as of now. But even if municipal politics suck less, I am really more interested in parallel structures
But that it's mostly because I am presently broke and any job sounds pretty good
There's always the temptation to imagine one could be the "good" politician. But the structure is bad
It would be a betrayal of my politics, but I am not saying it would never happen. I an not yet as principled as I would like
Brb a salvation army run
And back
i just ordered it this morning; i have been connecting through fast
food outlets for a month and will have to continue doing so until the
25th. i ended up going with 6, for $24.95, through teksavvy. it is a
little odd that they have stable pricing through ontario whereas
everybody else has a higher cost in the cogeco areas so i was a little
skeptical last night that what they had on their web site was actually
accurate. it is, indeed, a stable price across the province, though.
$25 is actually pretty cheap. and i do not like being rationed, but 75 GB is about twice what i will use in an average month, so i had to crack on that....
$25 is actually pretty cheap. and i do not like being rationed, but 75 GB is about twice what i will use in an average month, so i had to crack on that....
wow. cogeco is worse than rogers. i did not think it was possible to be worse than rogers.
one bad thing about windsor is that the internet is expensive. there may be some rumours about bad infrastructure, but i am not really buying it. it just seems to be that cogeco is charging independent isps more than rogers is for the use of their lines. of course, i insist upon an independent isp due to usage limits. i may rarely go over 35 gb, but i just resent being rationed.
some evidence: consider vmedia, which offers services in areas where both rogers and cogeco own the lines. for some reason, the cogeco areas are both substantially more expensive and substantially slower. because windsor is more affluent than toronto, i suppose. right. it just appears to be simple price gouging by cogeco for the purposes of dissuading competition. somebody send the anti-competition board after the fuckers...
it appears like i am going to have to resort to a dsl line at under 10 mbps. of course, reality is that 98% of web pages only let you download at a fraction of that, anyways. nowadays, download speed is determined more by the server you are downloading from than it is by your connection speed. you are rarely going to get even close to 500 K, let alone 750, from much of anywhere except google and netflix. torrent speed only comes close to that when downloading top 40 shit. so, 8 or even 6 mbps is more than sufficient for most people. unless you happen to be connecting to game servers, or you want to watch tv online, or are renting out the service to everybody on your block, there is little reason to pay for more than that, anyways. the entire pricing scheme they have set up is really just a scam to take advantage of people. i mean, they have a plan at 300 mbps. lol. come on. who do you think you are downloading from at that speed....
still, the obvious gouging is obvious and i am sort of irked.
the real reason they push these absurd speeds that nobody can really ever use is to sucker people into their lower speeds, which are really no less ridiculous. if you tell somebody that they have the option between 10, 20, 25, and 50 then people will tend to go with 20 or 25 because it is the goldilocks option. they may not need the fastest, but they do not want to settle for the lowest. if you add 100, 150, 200 and 300, people will go with 50 or 100. of course, most of these people will not need more than 10 - 20 would be overpaying in most cases. but by adding more expensive items in and providing more options you can bill them twice as much at no higher of a business cost.
the root problem here is that people just do not understand what it is that they are paying for.
it would be nice if that drove the lower speeds down in price, but there goes market theory not working once again. instead, they will slowly creep up - you can get 50 instead of 25 for *only* an extra $4 per month! well, until those options disappear altogether and the price just shifts up.
conclusion: fuck pointless advances in technology. higher costs at no real advantage. i would rather we stagnate a bit, thanks.
one bad thing about windsor is that the internet is expensive. there may be some rumours about bad infrastructure, but i am not really buying it. it just seems to be that cogeco is charging independent isps more than rogers is for the use of their lines. of course, i insist upon an independent isp due to usage limits. i may rarely go over 35 gb, but i just resent being rationed.
some evidence: consider vmedia, which offers services in areas where both rogers and cogeco own the lines. for some reason, the cogeco areas are both substantially more expensive and substantially slower. because windsor is more affluent than toronto, i suppose. right. it just appears to be simple price gouging by cogeco for the purposes of dissuading competition. somebody send the anti-competition board after the fuckers...
it appears like i am going to have to resort to a dsl line at under 10 mbps. of course, reality is that 98% of web pages only let you download at a fraction of that, anyways. nowadays, download speed is determined more by the server you are downloading from than it is by your connection speed. you are rarely going to get even close to 500 K, let alone 750, from much of anywhere except google and netflix. torrent speed only comes close to that when downloading top 40 shit. so, 8 or even 6 mbps is more than sufficient for most people. unless you happen to be connecting to game servers, or you want to watch tv online, or are renting out the service to everybody on your block, there is little reason to pay for more than that, anyways. the entire pricing scheme they have set up is really just a scam to take advantage of people. i mean, they have a plan at 300 mbps. lol. come on. who do you think you are downloading from at that speed....
still, the obvious gouging is obvious and i am sort of irked.
the real reason they push these absurd speeds that nobody can really ever use is to sucker people into their lower speeds, which are really no less ridiculous. if you tell somebody that they have the option between 10, 20, 25, and 50 then people will tend to go with 20 or 25 because it is the goldilocks option. they may not need the fastest, but they do not want to settle for the lowest. if you add 100, 150, 200 and 300, people will go with 50 or 100. of course, most of these people will not need more than 10 - 20 would be overpaying in most cases. but by adding more expensive items in and providing more options you can bill them twice as much at no higher of a business cost.
the root problem here is that people just do not understand what it is that they are paying for.
it would be nice if that drove the lower speeds down in price, but there goes market theory not working once again. instead, they will slowly creep up - you can get 50 instead of 25 for *only* an extra $4 per month! well, until those options disappear altogether and the price just shifts up.
conclusion: fuck pointless advances in technology. higher costs at no real advantage. i would rather we stagnate a bit, thanks.
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