Thursday, September 3, 2015

this article fails to correctly represent either party's position on the legislation.

it's kind of epic, really.

please, people: take the time to learn the truth. it's widely available, today. you just have to sit down and take the time that is necessary to work it out.

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/09/03/trudeau-wont-say-whether-c-51-is-constitutional-despite-support/

(deleted)

well, you didn't even state what you think, so i have no basis to react.

(deleted)

the conservatives have a majority. the liberals had the choice of allowing the bill through without amendments, or trying to add amendments. they did not have the choice of stopping the bill. and, i would again direct people to elizabeth may's notes for a good analysis of the details in committee.

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once again: the option of preventing the bill did not exist. the options that the opposition had were:

(1) allow the bill to pass without amendments.
(2) attempt to amend the bill.

the ndp picked the first option. the liberals tried to push the second option, but were not able to do so due to the ndp's politicking around it, including placing amendments in it that they knew the liberals would vote down. and, i would once again refer you to elizabeth may's notes to understand the process in which that happened. she's very smart in her analyses, and is often able to cut through the crap and figure out what's actually happening.

it's all very great to say "look. we voted against it.". but, if you actually care about what is in the bill, that is the completely backwards way to go about opposing it. voting against it at every step when you're in opposition is functionally exactly the same thing as supporting it. the only way that an opposition party can influence a bill like this from opposition is to make amendments to it. and that's what the liberals tried to do, and the ndp blocked them from doing.

Badriya
Fact 1. The NDP voted against C-51 and will repeal C-51 if elected.
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/mulcair-vows-repeal-bill-c-51-ndp-rally-surrey

Fact 2. The LPC voted in favour of C-51.
The article did omit the fact that Trudeau has promised to repeal parts of C-51 if elected.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeaus-liberals-proposing-modest-amendments-to-bill-c-51/article25010473/

deathtokoalas
the ndp has flip-flopped it's position a few times. it initially claimed amendment, just like trudeau:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1843737/given-the-power-mulcair-would-amend-anti-terror-bill-not-repeal-it/

then it claimed it would repeal it, as your article states. but it cannot actually do that.

then it played politics on it in committee, voting down liberal amendments and changing things in ways the liberals couldn't support so they'd vote down their own amendments. elizabeth may has kept very detailed notes on that that you're free to research. it's quite damning.

finally, mulcair has retreated back to his original position - which is the same as trudeau's position.

there is no difference between the parties on this issue.

i never claimed that trudeau could repeal this bill. but, the technicalities of how a bill like c-51 works is that it can't be repealed, it can only be replaced or amended. and, this is why mulcair's position has changed - it's a necessity as to how the system functions.

again, i would suggest people look up elizabeth may's notes on the topic. she was there. and, she's quite good at this kind of analysis. we weren't.