this is a really interesting debate. swanson takes a sort of libertarian/liberal perspective, whereas jay takes a marxist perspective (with shades of gramsci). it's also interesting on the level of where they agree.

i just want to add that swanson continually cites syria as an example of where popular opinion stopped the war. this isn't a very informed extrapolation of events. it's generally acknowledged that pressure from russia and china prevented the invasion. especially russia. it's not entirely clear what the russian threats were, but i suspect that may be flat out shocking when they come out.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=11188