and, i don't want you to misunderstand my points.

muslims are people, too. so, they are entitled to all of the same civil rights i'd give to everybody else, including rights of due process and even freedom of assembly. and, i'm certainly not advocating physically removing their clothing - they deserve bodily autonomy, like anybody else.

but, where i draw the line - and what makes me different than a conservative - is that i reject the idea of "religious rights", and am especially vocal about it when religious belief comes into conflict with other rights. while i insist that i am consistent about this, that i am merely applying the same standards to muslims that i apply to christians and jews, i also recognize that there are differences of scale, because, in the world we live in today, islam poses us challenges that the other religions don't pose us, or at least don't pose us anymore, or at least don't pose us right now.

so, i do not think that you have the right to oppress people because your religion says it, whatever your religion, and whoever you're oppressing.

further, because my end goal is secularization rather than multiculturalism, i am willing to support policies that slow down the rate of immigration for the benefit of social cohesion - partly because i realize that the other alternative is a lot worse.

if forced with a binary choice between (1) living in a society where religious muslims are participating in the political process and potentially fighting for laws that uphold their beliefs while challenging the secular nature of the state and (2) not having any muslims at all, i would find the second option more appealing. see, this is the trick - i ultimately don't particularly care what the people around me think or believe, but i really don't want to have to deal with fighting them off in the political arena, because i've spent the better part of my life fighting off christians, and kind of want to leave that behind and move on. it's deflating to find yourself victorious in the battle between secularism and religion, only to have your own side cave in by bringing your enemy all of these fresh recruits.

reality is not a binary choice such as this; this is a thought experiment. but, it demonstrates where the limits of tolerance exist, and where the actual fears lie. because, in the end, i'm not going to obey their laws. and, of course they're legitimate - because any sizeable group should be politically represented, as well.

as mentioned, the ideal is to let them come and then convince them to abandon their faith when they get here. but, that means that we need to have programs designed to integrate them, and it means that the rate of immigration cannot be so large as to overwhelm them. there are legitimate questions around both of these things, today, here in front of us.