Wednesday, October 7, 2020

realizing that the rdis changed for b5 was what put me on this review in the first place, and, if i'm to be consistent, i should seek the old rdis, which i know is all but impossible without a supplement. so, let's try to understand why they've halved the rdis from 10 mg to 5 mg for b5, first.

1) what do we do with this? 

the answer is that we convert it to a co-enzyme, of the 'a' variety. the co-enzyme is clearly very important, as it is used all over the place. so, why not just absorb the co-enzyme, then? and, the answer is that our metabolism is stupid, on this point - when we eat something like an avocado, we are ingesting the enzyme, but we have to convert it to b5 in the stomach to absorb it, then reconstruct it as the enzyme, after. maybe this is inefficient, or maybe it's done to prevent a reaction, who knows. but, looking for the co-enzyme directly isn't helpful...

2) how much can we actually absorb, directly? 

the claim at wiki is as follows:
As a whole, when intake increases 10-fold, absorption rate decreases to 10%.

if you follow the reference (Gropper SS, Smith JL, Groff JL (2018). Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism (7th Ed.). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, Cengage Learning. pp. 330–335. ISBN 978-1-305-62785-7, which i was able to preview in full at google books), it does sort of back up the claim - it suggests that if you take 10x the rdi via supplements, you only actually absorb 10% of it, ie the rdi. i'm just not clear if they mean 10 mg or 5 mg. so, if you take a 100 mg pill, you'll only get 10 mg of it absorbed, and the rest will pass through? or is it 50 and 5? that seems to be the suggestion - and may explain why there's no upper limit. you just don't absorb it, you shit it out.

but, the source also claims that absorption at dietary levels is only 50%. so, if you want 5, should you take 10? and, if you want 10 should you actually take 20?

this is apparently the alpha source and it clarifies that, even at moderate dosages, you just get further urinary excretion at minimal to inexistent increases in blood concentrations. specifically, individuals given supplements of 10 mg/day saw no increase over baseline levels.

so, how do i get to baseline levels?

2) is there an rda at all?

apparently not. the science is out on this, due apparently to a deficit of interest. deficiency of this vitamin is claimed to be rare, and symptoms of deficiency are not clear. so, we don't know how much we really need because we can't really figure out when we're low on it - except when we're malnourished, in general. they've instead used this other idea - adequate intake - to get a kind of rough ballpark on it.

interestingly, that source also indicates that blood serum levels did not decrease past a certain point when the molecule was entirely removed from the diet for a total of five weeks, indicating some sort of conversion is taking place. so, what are we doing, then? are we synthesizing it from other vitamins and amino acids? is there some stored in the liver? 

there's some suggestion that it might actually be being synthesized in the gut:

again: i'd rather get it from diet than rely on the gut. but, if you do a study where you completely remove this from a person's diet for five weeks and blood serum levels stay constant, it's gotta be one of those three options. it doesn't just create itself out of nothing - and we know we use it quite regularly.

3) so, can you store it, then?

apparently, no, not at all. while the molecule is sent to the liver for metabolic use, it seems to be absorbed entirely into the bloodstream. it seems to actually bind directly to red blood cells as it is transported to various places in the body. it's curious, though, that the largest source of this vitamin in our diet is....liver. so, cows seem to be able to store b5 in their livers. why can't we? and, if regeneration in the bloodstream isn't happening via converting stores in the liver, how's it happening?

this site claims that livestock can't store it, but then agrees that it has it's highest concentrations in the liver:

i'm going to express a little skepticism, then: this molecule does seem to build-up in the liver. we seem to be storing some of it.

4) can we synthesize it from other amino acids or vitamins?

i can't get a straight answer on this. we know we need b5 to synthesize fat, and we know we can get acetyl-coenzyme a from stored fat. can we convert that back into b5? is that why the blood levels stayed constant?

all i'm learning here is that we need to do more research on this molecule if we want to understand it better, and that's not going to happen unless we can come up with a good reason for it.

5) why was it initially set at 10 mg?

it seem to be the "daily value" that was set at 10 mg, while the "adequate intake" was set at 5 mg. what happened in 2016 appears to be that the dv was reset to synchronize with the ai. while these things should obviously be consistent with each other, it doesn't explain why they were set differently in the first place. and, perhaps there isn't really a good reason, other than that there's no really clear direction underlying either number. 

6) why is it set at 5 mg now?

The usual pantothenic acid intake is 4 to 7 mg/day, as reported for small groups of U.S. adults and adolescents (Bull and Buss, 1982; Kathman and Kies, 1984; Srinivasan et al., 1981; Tarr et al., 1981). There is no evidence suggesting that this range of intake is inadequate. Thus, the approximate midpoint—5 mg/day—is set as the AI for adults. 
 
they also apparently measured average urinary excretion at 2.6 mg/day and concluded that, because co-enzyme a is converted back to excreted pantothenic acid at a 1:1 ratio, and absorption is roughly 50%, 5 mg is adequate, daily. this is rounding down, but so be it.

these are fairly weak arguments.

so, what am i to do about this?

if the average range is 4 to 7, i'd rather go to the upper end of the spectrum than take an average. but, that is daily intake, and i'm really interested in a per-meal requirement. i can't convert these requirements so easily.

if i set it at 5 mg per meal, meet the requirements and and eat thrice daily, that's actually 15 mg consumed, which is twice the amount they're suggesting. while that argument won't work as well with rdas, the evidence i'm seeing around this particular vitamin with the ais upholds it as well as anything else.

so, i'm going to leave the rdi at 5 mg and set my own limit of 5.5/5 = 110%. 

i would also call for more research into the topic.

here's the data...

banana - 0.394*2 = 0.788 mg
strawberry - 0.125*.75 = 0.09375 mg
avocado -  2.08 mg 
kiwi - .183*.75 = 0.13725 mg
ice cream - 1.1*0.581  = 0.6391  mg. 
flax seed - 0.069 mg
=======
(0.788 + 0.09375 + 2.08 + .13725 + .6391 + .069)/5 =
3.8071/5 = 0.76142
76.14%--->76%

unlisted - 76%
soy - 15%
yeast - 3*(15/20) = 2.25%
cereal - 19%
======================
112.25%---->112%

that minor boost appears to mostly be from the yeast.

red peppers - .317*2 =  0.634 mg
pasta - 0.431 mg
cheese - .41*.6 = 0.246 mg
carrots - .273*1.1 =  0.3003 mg
hemp - .10*.56  = .056 mg
==================
(.634 + 0.431 + .246 + .3003 + .056)/5 =
1.6673/5 =  .33346 
33.346% ---->33% 

unlisted - 33%
yeast - 2*(15/20) = 1.5%
===============
34.5%

eggs - 0.764*3 =  2.292 mg
cheese - 0.41*.3 = 0.123 mg
===================
(2.292 + .123)/5 = 
2.415/5 =
.483 = 48%

unlisted - 48
bread - 5%
yeast - 1.5%
==================
54.5%

coffee:
0.452*4 = 1.808 mg
1.808/5 = 0.3616--->36%

coffee - 36%
soy - 4%
=====================
40%

overall:
112+34.5+54.5+40 = 241%

even with the halving of the rdi to 5 mg, the numbers for the other two meals remain remarkably low; remember that i only added the avocado at the last minute, and would have still been at 55% with the first meal, otherwise. if you're a strict vegetarian, you may want to be more concerned about b5 than b12, frankly. there's really not very many good sources of this, despite what the literature says about it, if you have a relatively low fat diet. so, i'm going to be looking at mushrooms for the salad bowl and hoping i get some decent fortifications for the eventual meat replacement for the eggs. it would be easier if it was in the yeast....

as mentioned, high dosages of b5 appear to merely get excreted. so, why put the strain on your kidneys? but, it doesn't appear to otherwise be harmful in high doses.

b6 is next.

disclaimer:
i've gone to town with a few things - i'm not making up vitamins but rather filling things in. i mean, there's all these "missing vitamin names". what were they, exactly? it also gives me an excuse to work in a few things like choline that are hard to otherwise define as they are essential in some amount but not technically vitamins.

note that these numbers are scavenged and should be interpreted approximately. that's partly why i'm aiming to overshoot on most of it.

fruit bowl
(08:00)
pasta salad bowl
(00:00)
fried eggs
(16:00)
coffee
ban
ana

2*
118 g
straw
ber
ies

5-6
75 g
avo
cado

2*
75 g
kiwi
1
75 g
soy
milk

250 ml
cher
ry
ice
cre
am

200 ml
nut.
ye
ast

 1
med
tsp
3
g
fort
cer
eal

55 g
grd
flax
seed

1
tbsp
sum red
pep
per
1
200 g
dur
um
wht
fet
100 g
+
h20
med
ched
chse
60 g
car
rot

110 g
hul
led
hemp
seed
10 g
yog
dress
or
canola
oil
caesar
(for e)
nut.
yeast
1
small
tsp
2
g
sum fried
eggs
2*70g
med
ched
cheese
30 g
marg.
2 tbsp
whole
wheat
bread
with
germ
+
flax  
(1
slice)
(37 g)
nut.
yeast

small
tsp
2
g
juice
type
250
ml
sum brew
coffee
700
ml
soy
choc
100
ml
sum total
raison 
d'etre
b5,9
b16
c
b5
b16
b3,5,9
o-6
k,b16
c
b5,9
k,b16
a
d
bs
satfat
a,b16
b5
bs a
bs
e
o-3
b16

vit c
vit e
b vit  vit a
fat
b12
vit a 6:3 rat taste
6:3 rat
b vit
vit a
chol
b vit
vit a
fat
b12
vit a
vit d
vit e
6:3 rat b vit -
caf
feine

a
(fat sol)
(900 μg rae)
7.08
μg
 
.75
μg
10.5
μg
3
μg
10
%
13
%
0 15
%
0 40
r:38
c:2
314 
μg
0.02
μg 
30
%
918
μg
0 - 0 167
r:30
c:137
r:29
c:6.9
μg
15
%
10
%
0 0- 55
r:54
c:1
0 4
%

4
r:4
c:0
266
r:126
c:140
b1
thiamin
(1.2 mg)
.074
mg
.018
mg
0.1
mg
.02025
mg
8
%
.0528
mg
155
%
20
%
.115
mg
214.5
u:31.5
.108
mg
84
%
.0174
mg
.0726
mg
.1275
mg
- 103
%
214
u:27
0.06
mg
.0087
mg
0 10.5
%
103
%
- 119
u: 5.5
0.1
mg
3
%
11
u:8
558.5
b2 [g, j]
riboflavin
(1.3 mg)
.146
mg
.0165
mg
0.195
mg
.01875
mg
25
%
.253
mg
144
%
24
%
.011
mg
242
u:49
.17
mg
41
%
.2568
mg
.0638
mg
.0285
mg
- 96
%
177
u:40
.684
mg
.1284
mg
0 3
%
96
%
- 161.5
u:62.5
.54
mg
10
%
51.5
u:41.5
633
b3
niacin
(16 mg)
1.57
mg
.2895
mg
2.61
mg
.25575
mg
10
%
.1276
mg
65
%
36
%
.216
mg
142.5
n:31.5
f:111
1.958
mg
66
%
.0354
mg
1.0813
mg
0.92
mg
- 43
%
134
n:25
f:109
.114
mg
.0177
mg
0 6.5
%
43
%
- 50.5
n:1
f:49.5
1.36
mg
4
%
12.5
n:8.5
f:4
339.5
n:66
f:273
.5
b4*
adenine
(75 mg)
2.832
mg
0.375
mg
15.9
mg
.339
mg
19.25
mg
.9735
mg
49.38
mg
? ? 118.5 31.8
mg
4.0
mg
4.92
mg
0.77
mg
? - 32.92
mg
99 2.24
mg
2.46
mg
0 4.514
mg
32.92
g
- 56 ? 7.7
mg
10 283.5
b5
pantothenic
acid
(5 mg)
.788
mg
.0938
mg
2.08
mg
.13725
mg
15
%
.6391
mg
2.25
%
19
%
.069
mg
112
u:76
.634
mg
.431
mg
.246
mg
.3003
mg
.056
mg
yog
urt
sub
1.5
%
34.5
u:33
2.292
mg
0.123
mg
0 5
%
1.5
%
- 54.5
u:48
1.808
mg
4
%
40
u:36
241
b6
pyridoxine
(1.7 mg)
44 2 19 2 6 1 88 25 2 189 24 7 2.5 5 3.5
88 130 12 1 0 3.5 88 - 104.50 2 2 423.5
b7 [h]
biotin
(35 μg)
15 2.5 - ? 30 1 30 86 - 164.5 16.5 1 3 12 8 - 30 70.5 65 1.5 13 3 30 - 112.5? 12 12 359.5
b8*
inositol

(myo
or
lipid)
(1000 mg)
20 10 - 102 25 5 10 - - 172 99.75 70.27 - - - - 10 - 6.3 - 16  50 10 - - - - - -
b9
[m, b11, r]
folic acid
(400 μg)
12 4.5 30 6 6 1 23 34 2 118.5 19 71 3 3 3 - 23 122 18 1.5 0 5 23 - 47.54 2 6 294
b10*
pABA
(100 mg)
~0 ~0 - ~0 >0 ~0 - - - 0 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
b12 [t]
(cyano)
cobalamin
(2.4 μg) 
0 0 0 0 50 20 1250 0 195 0 0 8.5 0 0 20+ 125 133.5 33 4 0 0 125 - 162 0 20 20 490.5
b13*
orotic acid
(mg)
~0 ~0 - ~0 ~0 20 - - - 20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
b14*
taurine
(mg)
~0 ~0 - ~0 ~0 2 - - - 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
b15*
pangamic
acid
~0 ~0 - ~0 0? ~0 - - - 0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
b16*
choline
(fat sol)
(550 mg)
4 1 4 1 11 5 1.5 2 1 30.5 2 2.5 2 1 - - 1.5 9 68 1 0 2 1.5 - 73.5 3 4.5 7.5 119.5
b20* [aka I]
l-carnitine
(25 mg)
~0 ~0 - ~0 ~0 5 - - - 5 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
c
(90 mg)
34 74 25 117 4 0 0 25 ~0 279 350 0 0 7 0 - 0 357 0 0 0 0 0 100+ 100+ 0 0 0 736+
d
(fat sol)
(15 μg)
0 0 0 0 45 0 0 6 0 51 0 0 2 0 0 20+ 0 2 12 1 30 0 0 - 43 0 18 18 114
e
(fat sol)
(15 mg)
2 1.5 16 10 0 2 0 36 0 67.5 13 1 1 2 7 30+ 0 24 9 .5 20 1.5 0 30+ 31 0 0 0 122.5
f1*
linoleic
acid
omega-6
(g)
(17 mg)
0.1086 0.09 2.534 0.187 1.5 .300 0 1.2 .414 6.3336 .0738 .540 .3462 .0828 2.87  - 0 3.9128 3.23 .1731 1.5 .5 0 - 5.4031 ~0 .8 .8 16.45
f2*
alpha
linolenic
acid
omega-3
(g)
(1.6 mg)
0.0638 0.065 0.165 0.0319 0.2 .200 0 0.2 1.597 2.5227.041 .024 .219 .0014 .93 - 0 1.2154 .228 .1095 .5 .75 0- 1.5875 ~0 .12 .12 5.45
f1:f2
ratio
- - - - - - - - - 2.51- - - - - 2:1 - 3.22 - - - - - - 3.40 - - - 3.02
k
(fat sol)
(138 μg)
2 1 39 38 5 0 0 - - 85 10 1 1 12 0 - 0 24 9 .5 10 .5 0 - 20 0 2 2 131
q1*
coenzyme
q10 (mg)
(30 mg)
0.272 0.075 - 0.0375 .625 .0308 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
q2*
pyrrolo
quinoline

 quinone
(mu-g)
3.536 - - 2.025 .063 .2101 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
s*
salicylic
acid
(mg)
~0 ~1 - ~0.375 ~0 ~0 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

* not really.

complete requirements

fat soluble:
- a: 120% of pre-formed + 100% of convertible rae, total daily. 30% + pre-formed per meal.
- choline: 30% + per meal, 120% total
- d: 30% + per meal, 120% total
- e: 30% + per meal, 120% total
- k: 30% + per meal, should not exceed 100%/meal, >120% & <200% total

water soluble (bs & c):
- 300+% total w/ 100% for each meal
- b1: 125% w/each meal
- b2: 131% w/each meal
- b3: 125% w/each meal, but not more than 200% in fortified sources.
- b4: 75 mg w/each meal
- b5: 110% w/each meal
- b6:

incomplete requirements legend:
>300% without meeting 100%/meal
+75<=100% each meal    [=+200%<=300% total]
+50<=75% each meal   [=+100<=200% total] 
<=50% each meal    [<100% total]

specific brands used:
- so nice vanilla soy milk
- chapman's black cherry ice cream
- bulk barn nutritional yeast
- vector cereal

- black diamond brand medium cheddar cheese
- selection brand pasta [metro/food basics]
- bulk barn nutritional yeast

- irrestibles brand olive canola oil
- dempster's whole grain double flax bread
- black diamond brand medium cheddar cheese

- natura chocolate soy milk
- no specific brand or type of coffee

diet options:

daily:


2) pasta salad bowl:
- 100 g cooked pasta
- one large red pepper
- one large chopped carrot
- 60 g chopped medium cheddar cheese [12 slices]
- 10 g hulled hemp seeds
- yogurt dressing or canola oil caesar dressing
- 1 tsp nutritional yeast
- glass of pasta water 
+
- tomatoes
- flax seeds (ground!) (probably not) 
- spirulina 
- tahini  
- macademia nuts 
- croutons
- tomato powder 
- caesar dressing (very little b1, 35% e?, some a)
- one tbsp of imitation bacon bits (isoflavones, maybe_
- 5 g chopped crickets [5 crickets]  [b12]
- indoor farmed fish? <----b5, b12
- shittake mushrooms <------b5
- lemon (probably for phytonutrients) 
- garlic cloves (probably for phytonutrients)
- oregano & pepper (probably for phytonutrients)
- kalamata olives (probably not necessary for e) 
- microwaved/chopped broccoli (probably not, due to k and I3C)  <----but, b5
- broccoli leaves or kale or dandelion leaves? (probably not, due to I3C and k) 
- red clover (if locatable or foragable, for phytoestrogens)
- alfafa?

- need 65-85% b5, 50-70% b12

3) eggs:
- 2 jumbo fried eggs
- 1 slice of whole wheat bread (including the germ!) with flax
- 2 tbsp olive oil margarine
- 30 g sliced medium cheddar cheese [6 slices]
+
- salami (45 g) (25% b1, 8% b2, 12% b3, 5% b5, 11.5% b6, 0% b9, 20% b12)
- rice (100 g) (60% b1, 2% b2, 35% b3, 4% b5, 6% b6, 69% b9)
- soy meat (100% b1, 50-70% b2, 100% b3, 15% b5, 60% b6, 45% b9, 90% b12)
- indoor grown salmon? (50 g) (15% b1, 15% b2, 55% b3, 15% b5, 20% b6, 150% b12) <------can't find
- mushroom sauce (some supplemental b2,/b3/b6, substantive b5)
- + apple juice? (1 cup) (100% c)
- carrot juice (1 cup) (18% b1, 8% b2
- orange juice (1 cup) (15% b1, 4% b2, 5% b3, 5% b5, 5% b6, 19% b9, 207% c, added e?)
- cranberry juice (unsweetened. need added c, has e)
- tomato juice (likewise)

- need (85 b1, 50 b2, 95 b3, 75 b5, 85 b6, 75 b9, 65 b12)


==========

the list of everything i need to get.

added are green

13 vitamins:
1) A
2) B1 (thiamine)
3) B2 (riboflavin)
4) B3 (niacin)
5) B5 (pantothenic acid)
6) B6 (pyridoxine)

7) B7 (biotin)
8) B9 (folic acid)
9) B12 (cyano-cobolamin)
10)  C
11) D
12) E
13) K


15 amino acids:
1) histidine
2) isoleucine
3) leucine
4) lysine
5) methionine
6) phenylalanine
7) threonine
8) tryptophan
9) valine
10) arginine
11) cysteine
12) glycine
13) glutamine
14) proline
15) tyrosine
+ measure 6 non-essential

4 fatty acids:
1) linoleic acid
2) ala
3) dha
4) epa

23 minerals:
1) calcium
2) phosphorus
3) potassium
4) sulfur
5) sodium
6) chlorine
7) magnesium
8) iron
9) zinc
10) copper
11) manganese
12) iodine
13) selenium
14) molybdenum
15) chromium
16) fluoride
17) bromine
18) cobalt
19) tin
20) vanadium
21) silicon
22) boron
23) nickel
24) lead?

carotenoids (not including pro-vitamin a)
1) lutein
2) zeaxanthin
3) lycopene
4) phytofluene
5) phytoene
6) astaxanthin
7) capsanthin
8) canthaxanthin
9) cryptoxanthin

chlorophyll:
1) chlorophyll a
2) chlorophyll b

other molecules required for proper metabolic functions:
1) choline (cannot synthesize properly)
2) coQ10

3) lipoic acid
4) glutathione precursors
5) ergothioneine  (cannot synthesize)   <-----mushrooms
6) pyrroloquinoline quinone (PQQ) (cannot synthesize)   <-----kiwis
7) queuine  (cannot synthesize)    <-----cheese [made in stomach by bacteria]

8) taurine (cannot synthesize properly) <----cheese
9) betaine (more than a choline precursor?)

glucose:
i'm more concerned about diabetes than weight gain, so...
the glycemic index is:
running total...

fiber:
i don't need many different types, i just need some. i'm not worrying about this.

& water

also, let's measure flavonoids:

anthocyanidins:
1) pelargonidin
2) delphinidin
3) cyanidin
4) malvinidin
5) peonidin
6) petunidin
7) rosinidin

flavonols:
1) isorhamnetin
2) kaempferol
3) myricetin
4) quercetin
5) fisetin
6) kaempferide

flavones:
1) luteolin
2) apigenin
3) techtochrysin
4) baicalein (to avoid!)
5) norwogonin
6) wogonin
7) nobiletin

flavanones:
1) eriodictyol
2) hesperetin
3) naringenin
4) hesperidin
5) isosakuranetin
6) pinocembrin
7) sterubin

isoflavones:
1) daidzein
2) genistein
3) glycitein
4) biochanin A
5) formononetin

i should try to measure some further phytoestrogens:
1) matairesinol
2) secoisolariciresinol
3) pinoresinol
4) lariciresinol
5) coumestrol

& finally, let's also measure:
1) saponins
2) ursolic acid (& precursors)
3) cafestol
4) resveratrol
5) ellagic acid
6) coumarin
7) tyrosol
8) hydroxytyrosol
9) oleocanthal
10) oleuropein
11) gingerol
12) phytic acid